"User agrees not to post material ... that violates any law"

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Admiral_Thrawn60, Dec 12, 2002.

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  1. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    that otherwise violates any law, or that encourages conduct constituting a criminal offense

    I'm a little confused about that little line there in the TOS. As we all know, we have members here from dozens of different countries, and each one has their own laws. So, what is consided illegal and what isn't? I know that we're not allowed to discuss marijuana, which is illegal in America but legal in some European countries, and Canada in the new year. Can I discuss removing bandages in public? That's illegal in Canada, but I think it's legal in the USA and other countries. Can I give people tips on how to break out of prison? That's legal in Denmark. However, it is illegal to wear masks there. So, should we ban Halloween discussions? They may degenerate into a discussion of mask-wearing. In England, committing suicide is classified as a capital crime. Perhaps we should ban anyone who threatens suicide, instead of give them help, because many of our members are British. We have many Singaporian members here. In that country, homosexuality is illegal. Perhaps we should root out the people who voted "Homosexual" on the Census poll and ban them.

    So, finally, it's time for my point. Could the administration please explain this rule better? Are all members required to follow the laws of America, regardless of their nationality? Or, are we trying to follow the laws of all nations? If it is indeed American law that we must follow, are we allowed to follow the laws of our own country, instead of those of America, on our Fanforce boards? For example, would a discussion about marijuana on FF Amsterdam be appropriate? Can we discuss public bandage removal in YJCC, but keep it off FF Canada?

    I think this aspect of the TOS needs to be explained better.

    YJ edit: Locked as requested in last reply by original author
  2. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I'll tell you one of them because it happened to me on several occasions. Death threats against family and children. That applies in just about any country. Nothing can be taken as a joke when it comes to that and we must follow up with the IP's to make sure it is dealt with swiftly and effectively.
  3. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    Essentially, this acts as a sort of escape clause. If the FBI raids the building where the server is an finds material that they say is against the law, Josh can point to the TOS and say ?I do not condone such material.?
  4. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Death threats should definately be an exception. I agree. That has nothing to do with world laws. It's flaming, trolling, and morally wrong. But what about other stuff?

    So in other words, Gandolf, the administation must make sure American law is upheld everywhere on the board, so the American government doesn't shut us down.

    Now that's one big pain in the butt. But, I guess there's nothing we can do about it.

    How about if we had some sort of disclaimer for Fanforce boards? I know this is better suited for FF Comms, but I don't want to create another thread on the same topic. Perhaps if we had something along the lines of "Note: Discussion on these boards must be in accordance with local law. Foreign users, visit at your own risk."

    Would that be acceptable?
  5. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    No, we just have to say we don't condone such material.
  6. Abner_Doon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 4
    I'm a little confused about that little line there in the TOS.
    Admit it, life in general confuses you. :p

    we have members here from dozens of different countries, and each one has their own laws.
    //hands AT60 the Ric Olie Award ;)


    I know that we're not allowed to discuss marijuana, which is illegal in America but legal in some European countries, and Canada in the new year.
    Decriminalization is not the same as legalization AT60, Canada does not consider Marijuana legal, nor will they in the new year. [face_plain]

    Can I discuss removing bandages in public?
    That's really more a thread for communications I think, but go for it. :D

    Can I give people tips on how to break out of prison?
    As of our last check, nobody here posted from prison...so the question is irrelevant. [face_plain]

    However, it is illegal to wear masks there.
    It is also illegal in Alabama. [face_plain]


    We have many Singaporian members here.
    They prefer Singaporean...but that is a minor point. [face_plain]

    In that country, homosexuality is illegal. Perhaps we should root out the people who voted "Homosexual" on the Census poll and ban them.
    We already did that, almost 6 months ago. Have you seen ethril around recently? I thought not. [face_mischief]

    So, finally, it's time for my point.
    Good god, I was beginning to wonder if your existence had ever reached a conclusion in its life...so lets proceed to the point, shall we? :)

    Are all members required to follow the laws of America, regardless of their nationality?

    We're not allowed to make exceptions based on Nationality according to the U.N.
    I suppose you meant citizenship however...but that would require a new thread. ;)

    would a discussion about marijuana on FF Amsterdam be appropriate?
    You don't speak Dutch Chris...and it wouldn't be worth the effort just so you can learn to say 'weed' on a messageboard. Again, irrelevant. :p

    Can we discuss public bandage removal in YJCC, but keep it off FF Canada?
    If you're allowed to discuss lightbulb wattage, you're certainly welcome to discuss public bandage removal. However, should you wish to speak to Canadians (Don't know why, they're all dumb as tar), you would have to edit your thread title to read "Public bondage removal" to meet the ethical standards of the illustrious Canada Rep. ;)


    edit: Forgot the ever-important smilies to portray convinving innocence.

  7. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    "Are all members required to follow the laws of America, regardless of their nationality?"

    Obviously, if you visit the US, you are obligated to obey US law. When you are at the JC, you are travelling over their servers, which reside in the US. They may enforce whatever standard they choose.

    But you already knew that, didn't you?

    AYBABTU?

  8. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    That was very uncalled for. (Abner_Doon)

    EDIT: AYBABTU, I know that they have the right to enforce American law on the board. What I want to know is whether or not that is indeed what they are doing. The purpose of this thread is to have that aspect of the TOS clarified, not to argue against it.
  9. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6
  10. DarthJurist Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 5
    Abner, you typed so much but managed to add absolutely nothing to the conversation. Please stay on topic and try dealing with the argument, rather than making ?irrelevant? random comments for your own amusement. Thanks. :)

    ~H~
  11. GIMER Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2000
    star 6
    You seem to know very well what is legal and illegal in different countries so, I think this one really falls under the common sense rule.

    Do you really think that discussing the price and quality of pot should be viewed as 'family friendly' anyway?

    Common sense would now tell me not to go into the Canadian forums and discuss public bandage removal. Since I didn't know that before now, and because it is such an obscure non-obvious rule, I'm sure that they would tell me it was out of line and I wouldn't do it again.

    I probably wouldn't go start a thread about the best way to rob a bank in any forum though... it's probably a universal thing.
  12. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    You'd be surprised just how much we think should be common sense doesn't seem to be understood. If it feels wrong, it probably is.
  13. KitFist0 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 4
    Sapient, that doesn't work because some people think that pot isn't wrong. Thus "it" doesn't feel wrong.
  14. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    EDIT -- On second thought, this is all semantics anyway, so there's not really much to discuss. I think most people at the JC know how to behave reasonably and in a way that is condoned by the Administration.

    And we can live without those who can't make those reasonable judgements.

    AYBABTU?

  15. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Know that if you are using this site to break laws, then the site's administration will probably side with the law enforcement officers for the jurisdiction that is a problem instead of siding with you.

    The moral of the story?
    Don't use this site to break the law.

    Location is irrelevent.
  16. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 7
    And we can live without those who can't make those reasonable judgements.


    Darn straight.
  17. Liz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 1
    Chris, I think this is more a question of common sense than internation law. First off, why would you be talking about weed? Discussing the ramifications of it? Or how good it feels? I don't think the former would be a problem if it was in the Senate (though I haven't visited there in a while, so I don't know if discussion about the ramifications of it is prohibited), and the later is certainly not family friendly. These boards are family friendly regardless of what nationality one is.

    As other people have noted, these servers are in America. American law, therefore, applies to them. By posting here, you are using these servers. I would consider that to be an acknowledgement that you must at least take American laws into consideration.

    Many things are illegal in America, like whistling on the street on Sunday. Discussion of that would not be prohibited in the JCC, even though it is illegal in some places in America. The same applies to sleeping in boxes in the street. Or not having kids allowed to buy markers. But there are some things that are absolutly prohibited. Call them common sense laws, if you must, and not tied to any particular country, since many countries have laws of the same ilk.

    Public bandage removal, I would think, would fall under the idiot laws I exampled already, above.


    Abner, you stole my award.
  18. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    It seems some of you had trouble interpreting my first post. I did not say I have a problem with the way the administration handles sensitive issues, and I do not have a problem determining what is appropriate and what isn't. This has nothing to do with marijuana, or sleeping in boxes, or even removing bandages in public. I just wanted the administration to clarify what set of laws they wanted upheld. The question has been answered. Lock, please.
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