Vader and the Death Star

In ROTS, the Emperor and Vader are beaming at the Death Star under construction, they apparently initiated its development, and saw it as a very powerful tool for control. They seem quite proud.

Yet in Star Wars, he says to Motti (who quite enthusiastically endorses the super weapon):

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Vader, in short, brushes the Death Star off.

So what gives?

 

well, even though they were in power with the Death Star, every plan has a flaw. Vader was just telling the officer not to get ignorant and overconfident, a lesson he learned all too well in his duel with Obi-Wan. And he's right , the ability to destroy a planet IS insignificant next to the power of the force.

 

Remember that Vader's statement is in reply to Motti's assertion that "this station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use it." Lord Vader is reminding him that the Force is the ultimate power, and the Death Star just a tool.

 

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed."



Yeah, after ROTS, that quote just doesnt seem to fit. We didnt see Motti in ROTS, so hes obviously a latecomer, Palps, Vader and Tarkin were there at the beginning.

 

Exactly. Vader's fine with the Death Star in and of itself, but views it as nothing more than a tool of the Empire.

 

I wouldn't say Vader was BEAMING at it in ROTS, he was just overseeing the construction of a battle station, it's all part of the job. Perhaps the way he folds his arms suggests that he is skeptical or wary about it.

 

He just thinks he's big time now...just bragging id say...

 

Nah, he's not at that point yet. I think he's still bitter at himself and brooding about what happened to him, and what he did to Padme. He's not yet 'bragging' badass Vader.

 

For all of the technology of modern SFX,ROTS Death Star looked like a childs toy...

Maybe the new gens at ILM should have gone back and done their homework,instead of scoffing about how the "old fogies" did it.

 

Hmm, maybe it was one of those ideas to tie the PT to the OT that didn't pan out because it wasn't well thought-out. Somehow it takes 20 years to build the first one, and only three to get more than halfway done ("fully armed and operational", no less) with the second, twice-as-large one.

I'll admit that part of me was excited to see the Death Star plans in AotC. But it was a simple fanboy moment of, "Wow, something from the movies I like is back up on the screen in a NEW movie." But it was quickly apparent that having the plans for the Death Star fully fleshed out 20 years before Star Wars was a bad idea.

It's actually an indictment of Jedi as much as the prequels that this through-line doesn't work. If there wasn't suddenly a new, bigger Death Star in Jedi, then it would make perfect sense for "the Empire's ultimate weapon" to be something that took over 20 years to develop and build. Watching the films in chronological order the whole thing makes sense until you hit Jedi. But given that Jedi was made first and Lucas knew about the DSII issue, I think showing the Death Star development the way he did was a mistake.

 

Somehow it takes 20 years to build the first one, and only three to get more than halfway done ("fully armed and operational", no less) with the second, twice-as-large one.


Yeah I struggled with that for a while. But after thinking about it, if the Empire knew that they took so long to build (which they would realize), and they probably wanted a fleet of them, then you would start the second and third, fourth etc soon after starting the first one.

 

The prequels weren't written when New Hope was made. That's the practical reason. As for the in-film reason, they never should have showed the first death star in the first place. It was done as a neat little in-reference for fans but it doesn't make any logical sense. I believe even in-canon it was presented more as Tarkin's idea that the Emperor approved of.

But as for what Vader said, decisions still turn on people. The Force may not be able to blow up a planet but Force users can direct the Death Star where to go, they can kill the Emperor so the Death Star never gets used, they can shoot torpedoes into thermal exhaust ports, etc. It all gets back to the fate of kingdoms turning on the stroke of a sword, the roll of the dice.

 

This is one of my favorite quotes of the OT mainly because it shows how Vader has grown. In the PT he's all about technology and its power. Yet by the OT he's mastered the darkside and the force in general. This quote means that no matter what technology they create, it will never compare to the power of the force. Plus, like others have said, he's taking him off his pedal stool. Telling him to not be so confident in a piece of machinery. It can easily be destroyed by someone with the force as their aid.

 

I never got the feeling that Vader endorsed the project in RotS just because he and Palpatine stand there together at the end.

 

Reminder: We do have a thread about the "20 years" issue.

it was in development at least 3 years earlier, so Vader had little to do with it. They're just there to see the beginnings of its construction.

Palpatine loved the Death Star idea - Vader's feelings from that one shot are hardly discernable. Most likely he just got dragged along by Palpy as his new apprentice; maybe on a "secrets of my new Empire" tour (along with sites like the training ground for the Royal Guards (Yinchorr in the EU)?).

He's there to make sure everything runs smoothly - during construction and later during ANH. By the Emperor's command. Doesn't mean he likes that project.

 

Vaders got his arms folded defensively across his chest in that scene so i'd say that he views the Death Star with contempt as a terror machine in ROTS, the Emperor likes it because it can kill a lot of people and planets easily and very quickly and people will be terrified of it when its first used later, Vader doesnt like it though, he knows like any machine it can be destroyed or exploited by someone like him and he doesnt place importance on it like everyone else does.

 

he was keeping the pecking order between himself/the emperor and the military. If the death star were truelly the ultimate power in the universe, then the person in charge of the death star could turn on the emperor...

Vader reminds them that no matter how powerful this weapon is, he and the Emperor can still kick their ass

 

QFT

 

Ironic that Vader a symbol of a "Tool of the System" or "Tool of the Machine" is a critic of another tool of said system. Perhaps a warning that you can fall despite the power of your tools like saying, "Look what happened to me."

 

Vader is just trying to scare the other officers on the death star, honestly... can the Force destroy a planet?
NO!
Even Palpatine's Force Storm can't destroy a planet. so when vader says that the ability to destroy a planet is insinificant next to the power of the force it's just vader talking smack.

 

I share the view that Vadert never held the Death star in high regard, and his actions in ROTS are too inconclusive to tell very much. Personally, I don't think Vader was in a position to beam about anything at that point in time.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the super laser the only part of the Death Star that was non-operational at the time of ANH? Perhaps the super laser is what took so long to complete. Maybe the Death Star had been finished for years already. The twenty year time frame might not be accurate at all. Just a thought. We see a completed Death Star, minus the super laser, which gets completed after Leia is captured. Or am I incorrect? Without the super laser, the Death Star really isn't a threat to anyone. It's just a large base that moves around. So it's possible it wasn't widely known about yet. My head hurts.

 

That's what I was thinking. Vader's gotta have some pretty deep faith in the Force after Mustafar, I'd think; after all, he just lived through multiple limb amputations and getting all of his skin burned off, and managed to live until his boss showed up.

 

I had the same impression. He is just standing there quietly. He just looks to me like he's standing there, thinking. There is probably so very much, going through his mind in that scene. The past, and what lies ahead in the future. Thinking of Obi-Wan, Padme, what has all happened, and led up to this. In fact in my eyes, he dosen't look to happy about standing there. It's one of those little scenes, that to me seems to have a lot more going more then just him and the others standing there together. I see Palpatine standing there, and think that he's no more prouder, then he's ever been in his lifetime. Finally achieving what he's always wanted. Then if you watch, you see Tarkin look over at them both and he makes a wierd face, if you watch close. Like either "why is Vader even here?" or something along those lines. Or "Are you guys sure about this?" I don't know, it's a look he gives as he turns and walks away. One of those "I sure hope to heck this is going to work" kind of looks. I just feel there are more things going on inside the heads of those guys at that particular scene.

 

Upon re-reading the ANH novel, I realized that the supposed continuity glitch of how long it took to construct the Death Star is actually in agreement with the original novel. The book states that the project took "many long years" to complete ( not just "years" ).