Saga Vader as Luke's father

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by SithLord_1270, Mar 29, 2013.

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  1. SithLord_1270 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 5, 2008
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    Just curious: How did u feel, & what was your reaction when you found out that Vader was Luke's father?
    Did u believe it? Or think it was a lie? Did it make the saga better for u or ruin it?

    For me it made it better. Made it deeper. For me it went from hero has to kill the bad guy, & avenge daddy & get the girl, to that evil guy IS ur father, now how do u deal with it. I was interested at the age of 10 :) to see what Luke would do.
  2. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 18, 2012
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    I don't necessarily have a problem with it, and at the time it seemed like a 'cool' twist, as I recall - and it really was a stunner. It always jarred that it simply did not match Obi-Wan's words in ANH, so from that perspective I'd have preferred it if it had always been planned that way (the problem with writing a 'saga' on the fly, I suppose). In another way I also wonder how much more powerful Luke's refusal to kill Vader, and Vader's return from the darkside would have been had it not been mitigated by their familial relationship.
  3. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 4, 2012
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    It would have been really weird if Luke refused to kill a man who had destroyed a planet of billions, tortured his friends and tried to kill him.
  4. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
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    I've always thought that would add a lot to Luke as a character, actually-Vader not being his father. It removes the emotional stake and hero worship Luke has for Anakin and makes Vader being able to turn back much more questionable.
    only one kenobi likes this.
  5. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

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    But that's exactly what he did. Did he do it, simply because it was his father? I thought it was because he realised he was acting in anger, with hatred. He refused to give in to those emotions.
  6. Revenge of the Dak Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 27, 2012
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    I was born in 1981. My first words were 'uke and 'eia. Vader has always been Lukes father to me.

    Now, does it make it any better? Absolutly! He has to be his father IMO. If not, then there would be no internal struggle for Luke to go hunt down Vader and destroy the man/machine that killed his father. Luke would have no problem finding him, killing him and probably turning to the Dark side in doing so. He would be out for revenge no matter what anyone said. Yoda told him "You will know", well I would kinda disagree that Luke would know if Vader wasn't his father, IMO.
  7. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Jan 30, 2013
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    Had it not been for the fact that it was his son, Vader would have let the Emperor torture Luke to death.
  8. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 18, 2012
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    But that's just it. In my opinion the sacrifice of Vader at the end of ROTJ would have had much more impact if it were not his son that he saves. As it stands it leaves the question is it only because it is his son? If that is the case then what, really, had he learned about being a Jedi? How selfless, really, are his actions if it is because it is his son?
  9. Placeholder Force Ghost

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    Jan 30, 2013
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    I get it, I just don't think it would have made a lot of sense. Vader wasn't the kind of guy to just sacrifice himself for any old anyone. It would have made little sense for the character.

    It's the fact that Luke is his son that stirs any sense of goodness in him at all.
  10. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 4, 2012
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    Exactly. He didn't save him solely because he was his father, your missing the entire backstory. If Vader had always been a monster then I'm sure Luke would have had no problem finishing him despite it being his father.
    But Luke says "I have accepted the truth that you were once Anakin Skywalker my father." Luke was willing to put everything on the line because he knew his father had once been a good man and a hero. He felt that Vader felt a connection to him and thought it could be the one thing that he could use to turn him away from the dark side.

    Also I think it's clear his realization in the final duel is that he's becoming Vader. That by striking him down he would basically replace him as the Emperor's servant.
    ...But apparently he when he tossed his lightsaber he forgot about Yoda's warning "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor."
  11. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

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    No, I haven't missed the backstory. I was responding to your original claim, which you have elaborated upon here. So, it wasn't because Vader was his father that Luke chose not to kill him. I'm not suggesting that the story should have been altered, I simply wonder on the dynamic if it were. Of course the lead up to the final conflict would have worked out differently. Think how much more striking Luke's refusal to kill Vader would be if this were the murderer of his father (and as a juxtaposition we see Anakin in ROTS execute Dooku. We see the same choice.) And then, how much more Vader's choice to save Luke and destroy the Emperor would be predicated upon the lesson Luke has offered, rather than because it is his son.

    The appearance of the son of Anakin, a friend of Vader's, would open up the possibilities for reflection within Vader, and the same inner turmoil.
    Last edited by only one kenobi, Mar 29, 2013
  12. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

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    That is how it plays out. The turmoil in Vader is set in motion by the appearance of his son. But, there is no reason why, in an alternative setting the appearance of the son of his friend, who he betrayed and murdered, cannot also set off the same questions and turmoil.
  13. natureboy76 Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 11, 2009
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  14. Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 9, 2009
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    I was a little bit shocked on the moment...And I believed it was the truth.

    It made it better and deeper for me as well. That's actually around that time that I became sort of fascinated by the saga and the whole story. Especially just before ROTJ's release in 1983.
    It also made the future backstory/PT to come even more dramatic and emotional.

    Was 9 1/2 when all this occured (ESB 1980)...:)
  15. janstett Force Ghost

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    May 29, 2004
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    I saw them at theatrical release as a youngster... So after ESB in 1980, nobody could believe it was true. It couldn't be true. It had to be a lie.

    We'd have to wait 3 years to find out, anticlimactically, that it indeed was true.

    Star Wars up until that point was building towards Luke defeating Vader, it just had to go there logically. The father revelation stood the entire story on its side. And if it was true, then who knows what that would mean for the ultimate Luke-Vader confrontation or even if it would happen.
  16. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

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    Mar 18, 2013
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    It's all a shock in ESB, unless you're Dutch, as Vader translates as father. So it would be a bit strange that he was called Darth Father if he wasn't a father in a significant way.
  17. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Except that 'Vader' isn't pronounced the same way in Dutch as it was in the films. It's pronounced 'Vay-der' in the films, as opposed to 'Vah-der' in Dutch.

    The wording is a complete coincidence in terms of it being translated as 'father'. Darth 'Vader' is meant to invoke the word 'invader' - 'Dark/Death Invader' - although there's a theory to be made regarding a certain high school jock named Gary Vader who attended the same high school as a certain George Lucas - a theory which isn't mutually exclusive.

    The whole 'Darth Vader = Dark Father' theory is utter hogwash. 'Darth' has no meaning, beyond its phonetic relation to the words 'death' and 'dark', and 'Vader' seems to be phonetically related to 'invader' (much as the word 'insidious' spawned Palpatine's Sith moniker), perhaps influenced by a name GL may or may not have recalled as a real name from high school.

    Plus, the first character given the name 'Darth Vader' wasn't even in the controversial Fallen Sith/Jedi Warrior mix anyway - he was simply a nasty Imperial officer along the lines of Tarkin or Jerjerrod.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Apr 5, 2013
  18. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

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    Mar 18, 2013
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    It might be pronounsed differently but it's still spelt the same. It may just be chance, or when learning of this twist of fate GL decided he would use it to his advantagea nd follow the father route.

    Mod edit: No personal attacks or mini-modding. Particularly unwise to do so against a moderator.

    I'd never considered the Dutch translation anything more than a coincidence, until my Brother-in-law (who is Dutch) told me that most of The Netherlands thought it was a slip and they assumed he would be a father in some sense. That may have been in a religious sense and not a literal way after all Jedi is referred to as a "religion" in ANH by one of the imperial officers.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Apr 5, 2013
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