Vader Fans Unite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"He's as clumsy as he is stupid."

 

Ohhh Twinnie! That's absolutely new for me! You love a Sith Lord?

hehe ;-)

Who thought that!

 

Darth Vader is the pinnacle of all Sith Lords. Enough said.

 

Hey Pat, DV's more than a Sith Lord (remember there's good in him =) and yesss, I love him !!!

but you still have your chances boy, you know

 

My favorite Vader quote is not a Vader quote at all, but an Ozzel quote, and it ends in "Ackkkkk!"

 

Vader has neither strength nor honor.

I would mop the floor with him in the colloseum.

 

Darth Max, that's funny as hell!
I'm am w/o a doubt a true Yoda fan, but Vader is pretty cool,... for a Sith.

 

I always liked the line 'Don't fail me again . . . Admiral'. He says the 'Admiral' bit in a really patronising way.

Was anyone else really surprised when Admiral Piett turned up in ROTJ? I was like 'how could he have lasted all that time?'. He must hold the record for the longest amount of time being the Admiral on the Executor.

 

Yeah Vader rules (Shouts "Vader" in the Jerry Springer style)
Darth, Darth he's our man, If he can't kill them no one can

 

I like Darth Vader but face it Maul would mop the floor with him, now Anakin Skywalker is another mater.

 

We haven't actually seen Vader giving all that he had in a duel - on DS1 Obi-Wan was willing to lose, in ESB and ROTJ he was a facing a Jedi far less skilled than he is and he got his hand cut only because he was caught off-guard by the intensity of Luke's anger.
Also, Maul has actually fought the Jedi twice, where Vader has slain hundreds and perhaps thousands of Jedi - the Dark Lord has much more experience than Maul, and this is also an important factor.

 

Maybe but did he kill all those jedi when he was in his suit? he can't move that well, Maul could run circles around him. Maul defeated Qui-Gon who was one of the most skilled swordsmen(if not the best) in the whole order and got killed cuz he was caught off guard by obi-wan

 

Darth (yes, Vader, who did you think I meant?!) could kick Maul's ass anytime. OK, maybe he can't move that well in that suit, but he's so much smarter than hornie. Not to mention his Forcepowers...(even though I believe he is stronger as Anakin. Maybe because he can't use the whole Dark Side, he never surrenders completely to it, or because his injuries somehow lesses his ability to use the Force)

Anyaway, my favourite quote is "Apology accepted, captain Needa" and for some reason "Yes, admiral, what is it?" Dunno why, but I like it.

 

"Join me and We can rule the galaxy as father and son."

 

Vader is a much better constructed, rounder villain and character than Maul. Vader has all those great lines which show how evil he is and what his character is like, whereas Maul might as well be a Sith robot, who only killed one Jedi to Vader's hundreds or thousands. The suit is not a problem. Vader didn't seem all that encumbered by it in the movies. In fact it seems to make him stronger ( think the captain of the Tantive IV ), and he seems to have some sort of blast shields in his hands ( Remember Han shooting his hand, and nothing happens, then Vader takes the blaster away? ) .
Also, Vader is much stronger with the Force, whether as Anakin or Vader, than Maul was. The Jedi Maul defeated has been described as past his prime. James Earl Jones is great as the voice of Vader.
Favorite quotes are... "Today will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi, and will soon see the end of the Rebellion," "Apology accepted, Captain Needa," and "When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master." Other lines are well-written too.

 

Maul is just Palpy's unthinking pit bull. Vader is a thinking villain, a man of ambition and personal power who outwits inferior opponents. Even as a cripple, he can still have those who face him pooping their pants with fear. You'd better believe he was something else before he was in the suit.

 

A note on how Vader stopped the blaster bolts : in fact the armor may have played part in it, but only speeder or walker plating absorbs blaster bolts with such ease, I tend to think Darth has used a Force power to absorb/dissipate part of the bolt's energy.

 

It was a force power that vader used to absorb the energy, I don't know if you guys think of the EU as canon but in I jedi they say it's a force power.

Qui-gon may have been past his prime but he was still one of the best, he had expirience wich more than made up for his psychical lackings. anyway just because Vader has a better dialoge doesn't mean he fights better. Lucas described vader and luke's final duel as

"An untrained boy fighting a cripel"

I think that speaks for itself, Maul could kill vader, although vader would have some chance.

 

"Bring my shuttle."
-Then the bastard cut it for the SE. Akkkk!!

Maybe:
- "... But you are not a Jedi yet."

V Rulz.

 

Hello, did anyone else see Vader jumping around in ESB or ROTJ? Why would he make a suit as clumsy as you say it is? We know it increases his physical strength, has armor, and the eyes have sensors like stormtrooper helmets. Also, could Maul have blocked blaster bolts with a force power alone ( thx, Pellaeon ) or would he have needed his lightsaber? Vader was caught off guard by Luke's anger in ROTJ, but I disagree with those who say Luke was untrained. Yoda said his training was complete, and that after he confronted Vader he would be a Jedi. There were some aspects of the Force that Yoda didn't teach him that much about, but he had all the fighting skills he needed. Earth to people: Vader and Luke were not meant to appear as untrained idiots or cripples in the OT. They were supposed to be powerful warriors. Where is it suggested, except by the gloating, lying Emperor Palpatine, that these guys aren't major a**-kickers?
Also, you want to talk about experience, what about all those Jedi Vader killed?

 

Luke completed his jedi training but he was untrained in the use of a lightsaber, vader jumped but not as good as Maul, maul danced around the hanger with his lightsaber as where vader could only make short jumpes down the stairs.

Here is a link 1 where they discuss the lightsaber fightingstyles. also a link 2 to another thread maul vs vader who would win

link 1:


http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres12.htm#obiwan

link 2:

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=1542606&replies=49

 

The discussion about the armour chafes an old sore.

Reading Bob Brown's lightasbre pages (previous post, "link 1"), he summarises what must have been on Lucas' mind when he said the thing about the "untrained boy and cripple" rather well.
There you can read that Vader adopted his "super-heavy" armour on top of a "cruelly heavy iron lung", on top of "near-fatal, crippling injuries", to compensate for the disabilities and handicaps imposed by those very same "...iron lung" and "...injuries".

Now, those of you that are historically versed, would you say that a Medieval European armoured knight, or Feudal Japanese samurai, would have been able to "compensate" for being less than up-to-par physically by donning a heavy armour - which is even more tiring to wear, and makes it even more difficult for him to fight effectively?

As a military historian, an archaeologist specialised in arms and armour, a former Medieval re-enactor, and a practitioner of Kendo, I feel I can say with some authority that NO, they would NOT. Rather the opposite, in fact: a heavily armoured fighter on foot needs to be vastly better than an unarmoured opponent just to be on an equal footing.


The "grade" of full armour (plate/half plate, full helmet, full body armour, etc.) that Vader wears has historically been worn by horsemen - and ONLY by horsemen; in Japan as well as in Europe. People who have been supposed to fight entirely on foot have worn comparatively light armour, if they've worn any armour at all.
To wit: in order to wear such armour all day long, and to undertake prolonged strenuous activity in it (like fighting on foot), anyone - Vader included - would need to be *extremely* fit.
He can not compensate for a physical handicap by wearing armour heavy enough to give a lightsabre blade pause (as we see in TESB); rather the contrary: he must compensate for the handicap his armour induces by being physically far superior to any opponent.

And in order to have any chance against Kenobi or Skywalker while wearing the armour, he also needs to be extremely more skilled - and fit, and agile - than either of them; but still, because of the armour, his movements will *appear* clumsier and more restricted.
This distinction also goes for any comparison between Darth Vader and Maul. In any encounter between the two, Maul would be in severe trouble, his "flashy" moves notwithstanding.

In the end, does Vader *move* like a cripple? No; he moves like a well-trained, agile and strong man, with full use of his whole body, who wears a suit of armour that limits his range of movement.
In all, it seems to me that Vader wears his armour from personal preference, not from necessity.

I am compelled to conclude that Lucas' belated idea - there is, in fact, little trace of it before ROTJ - about Vader being a "cyborg cripple" doesn't have a proverbial, cybernetic or otherwise, leg to stand on.

 

Good point Vader.

May I had that, despite all his so-called agility, Maul doesn't fight that well ? All of his strikes are physical strikes, he doesn't use the Force as a weapon like Vader does in ESB ; Maul uses the Force, that's for sure, he needs it to jump and to block his opponents strikes, but he is not strong enough to Force project people or objects. If Vader had fought Maul, he would have won because of his knowledge of the Force. If you want to consider the EU, think of what is said in the courtship of princess Leia.

Anyway, one thing I don't like in Maul's character is his lack of deepness. Let's forget the fact that he doesn't talk much (it's not really an original arguement ; what disturbs me is that Maul lacks mitivations. Vader wants order and peace ; he's bad but his aim is good, that's the way Vader's character works (the inner conflict between light anddark blablabla). Maul.. what does he exactly want ? he had no choice but being a Sith, and his life ends being pointless ; he has nothing to achieve. Why would this character be interesting ?

 

I must remind you, armor or not ( I'm not sure how much really was armor, anyway ) that Vader needed the cybernetic enhancements to live, since Luke said you'll die. Did you see the back of his head when Piett comes in? Send shivers down your spine. Ben said, "He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil." I'm not sure how much protection that "armor" really gives, since it's been suggested the hand thing was a force power.
You'll be proven wrong when we see what happens to him, although don't get me wrong, I agree that whatever the underlying cause, Vader appeared powerful and agile, and had greater Force and other ability than Maul. Also, a final word about the improved fights in TPM. Lucas couldn't have made Vader and Luke move like that if he wanted to. They didn't have the mastery of CGI and cables they used for TPM, so it shouldn't be any reflection on the abilities of Vader or Luke.

 

On your last point about moviemaking restrictions, you and I are in complete and utter agreement, eaglejedi (and I actually prefer the battles in the earlier movies to the acrobatics of TPM).

As for the "he said", "did you see", and "it'll be proven" bits, well ... I don't know how thoroughly you've actually read the "How is the Empire evil?" thread, but if you've read it through, you will know my take on that part.