Vader-Palps-plotting to destroy each other

I watched the ROTJ last night and realized that while Luke and Vader were battling, the Emperor kept egging Luke on to destroy Vader.

But one line stuck out, when he said to Luke, and I may be off with the exact quote, but, he said "good, good, my young Apprentice".

He is saying this as though he is already his apprentice. This clearly indicates that the Emperor was through with Vader.

I assume that Palps plotting began as soon as he new of Young Skywalker in ESB. And we can say that Vader?s began in ESB, with the "together we can destroy the Emperor."

I would just like to hear thoughts on this subject.

 

yea vader wanted to rule the galaxy with his son, and i think palps was always disapointed about what happened to vader making him a cyborg so he wanted luke who was younger and more powerful. just like he replaced dooku with anakin for the same reason.

 

Considering the Sith rule of two, the conversations between Sidious and Vader about Luke get a whole new meaning. They both know full well that if young Skywalker is turned, one of them has to go. So Vader makes his pitch in Cloud City, while Palpatine makes his on the second death Star. Also, Vader blocking Luke's saber when he tries to kill the emperor can be viewed as Vader either trying to protect Sidious, or as Anakin trying to protect his son from the dark side, maybe subconsciously.

 

I wonder if Luke had struck down Palps, and Vader did not stop him with the sabre...would that have turned him to the Dark Side?

I guess we could also argue that Vader knew it would turn him to the Dark Side, so he was protecting him.

Or Vader has already made up his mind that after the discussion with Luke on Endor, Anikan is coming back, or is back. And he knows he is the Chosen One, he is the only one who can fulfill the Prophecy and bring order to the Galaxy by destroying the Sith. Only he can do this, if he lets Luke do it, then likely the Prophecy can not be and will not be fulfilled.

 

>>>>>>>>>>I wonder if Luke had struck down Palps, and Vader did not stop him with the sabre...would that have turned him to the Dark Side?

I guess we could also argue that Vader knew it would turn him to the Dark Side, so he was protecting him.

Or Vader has already made up his mind that after the discussion with Luke on Endor, Anikan is coming back, or is back. And he knows he is the Chosen One, he is the only one who can fulfill the Prophecy and bring order to the Galaxy by destroying the Sith. Only he can do this, if he lets Luke do it, then likely the Prophecy can not be and will not be fulfilled.<<<<<<<<<

Hmmm, I think that after ESB Vader is conflicted, deeply conflicted, but I don't think he's decided to turn back from the dark side jsut yet. Vaders defense of Sidious is really interesting, since he knew that either he or Sidious had to die for Luke to become a Sith, I think that that's Anakin popping out trying to save his son from striking Sids down in anger, which would lead Luke to the dark side, maybe not completely, but it would definitely put him on that path. Did Sids still have his lightsaber? Could he have defended himself from Lukes attack? Is he laughing because he believes that Vader is so completely under his control that he will allow his son to take his place?

 

It's the way of the Sith. Vader wanted Luke to turn to the darkside and be his apprentice, and Palpatine wanted him for his apprentice. He was trading in Vader for luke, like he did Dooku for vader. Getting a younger model

 

I think it's pretty clear that Darth Vader was planning on taking Luke as his apprentice and offing the Emperor. He does say so in ESB. Plus if you have seen ROTS, don't worry I won't ruin it if you haven't, that wasn't the first time Vader thought of taking over. Also, I think that the Emperor kind of senses this and is probably getting tired of Vader's constant breathing anyway, so he figures that he can manipulate Luke like he did Vader.

EDIT: OOPS! Dislexia rears it's ugly head!

 

Kenny T and TK-101

Kenny T - "It's the way of the Sith. Vader wanted Luke to turn to the darkside and be his apprentice..."
Tk-101 - "I think it's pretty clear that Darth Vader was planning on taking Luke as his apprentice and offing the Emperor..."

Well then why not allow Luke to strike down the Emperor, go to the Dark Side and have what Vader wants?

Thats my point, he stopped Luke. If he did not he would have had the cake that the 2 of you outlined, and ate it too.

 

"Well then why not allow Vader to strike down the Emperor, go to the Dark Side and have what Vader wants?
Thats my point, he stopped Luke. If he did not he would have had the cake that the 2 of you outlined, and ate it too."

What? That makes no sense? No one stopped Luke from anything! Luke willingly chose not to fully embrace the darkside and because of it the Emperor got mad and decided to kill him. Which in turn caused Vader to kill Palpatine. And what you said makes no valid sense of an argumant against the rule of two. Please do me a favor and clarify what you're talking about!

 

He is talking about how Vader stopped Luke from chopping off Palpatines head when Palps goated him into trying to do so.

It's a complicated thing being a Sith. Though Vader would love to destroy the Emperor and rule the galaxy with his son. Letting Luke kill the biggest evil in the galaxy while doing nothing is not the way. Say he lets Luke kill Palpatine... Then What? Luke may then throw down his saber and still refuse to turn to the dark side. Vader asked Luke in ESB to join with him and rule the galaxy as father and son... pretty good indication of what he wants there.

 

OH! Ok, I get it now hahah my bad! But still, it's clear that both the Emperor and Vader both wanted Luke to be there apprentice.

 

Thanks for explaining my point Kenny T, I think it makes sense.

But I see where you are coming from Kenny T....Although this is what Vader wants, it is not the way or the time that would give it to him, as Luke could have not turned.

Heck, or he could have turned completely, striking down the Emperor, then turning to "father"....

Luke--father now I am the most powerful

Vader--son, together we can rule the galaxy

Luke--tired old man, no use of your mechanical body do i have.

......The Luke strikes down Vader and is now the new, most powerful Emperor. With the goal of turning Leia.

Hahahahahahah

But seriously good thoughts Kenny T

 

Dumb thought

 

I wonder what vader was thinking, when the emperor kept talking about luke becoming his new apprentice. Evidentally vader didn't much care, he didn't seem to be mad at all.

By the way, the way I interpreted the whole " join me, and together we rule the galaxy as father and son" was just a trap to lure luke to the dark side. I don't think that he actually meant it. Although the whole thing doesn't make much sense to me. The emperor has betrayed vader a bazillion times, but vader could seem to care less about it. And Im guessing, since he didn't seem to do anything about it, vader just accepted the fact that he would have to be killed.

 

My take on it is that Vaders offer to Luke on Bespin was very much real, but Luke rejected it. Then, on the second Death Star, the Emperor makes his pitch to make Luke strike him down, probably betting that Vader, having failed to turn Luke himself, would try to defend his position from him. And maybe he also had his lightsaber in his robes, ready to block the swing himself, or maybe he would have defended himself with some force lightning if Vader allowed Luke to cut Sids down. The Sith have the rule of two, but they don't really need it, they seem to be unable to keep even that small a group from infighting and treachery.