CT Vader`s status in the Empire

Sorry if this has been posted before.

In ANH Vaders appears to be just one of many officers in the Empire, one who does`t get much respect from the others. But in ESB and ROTJ he is clearly in charge, giving orders to the others and seems closer to Palpatine than anyone.
Has his status changed between the films or have I missed something?

 

He's like the Karl Rove or Rahm Emanuel of Star Wars.

 

On the Death Star, Vader was second only to Tarkin and only because the latter was specifically assigned the post for his ruthlessness. As the Emperor's most powerful enforcer, Vader is usually in command unless the Emperor specifically says otherwise IMO.

 

I would contest the qualifier of Tarkin, I don't understand why so many take issue with the fact in SW Vader is lower than he is but whatever. Vader is nothing but a bulldog in SW. When Tarkin died due to Luke's forced over reaction, yes, his status changed.

 

I'd say Vader has no official rank, military or otherwise. His role is 'understood' rather than officially mandated. Most of the time for the sake of order he'd work within the military parameters but push come to shove he does as he pleases, save for instruction to the contrary from The Emperor.

 

Vader was just the emperors right hand man and enforcer. If ever the emperor needed a specific task done he would get Vader on the job. And Vader utilized the imperial army and navy as per his needs to do the emperors bidding.

 

As I understand it, Vader had no military rank up to the Battle of Yavin, he was the head of the Imperial secret police, and part of a different chain of command (much like the Gestapo) - hence the contempt with which he was regarded by some of the officers.

Following the destruction of DSI, he was promoted to Lord High Executioner and given command of the entire Imperial fleet to hunt down the Rebels. Basically a Field Commander, but without an actual military rank. It'd be a similar situation if, say, the head of the CIA was given complete control of the US military.

 

I doubt very much that most fans would call Luke's decision to participate in the Rebellion and help destroy the Death Star a "forced overreaction".

I think the movies leave it a little vague as to what Vader's exact role in the Empire was - but the more recent EU had Vader be given almost complete control of the military (as the Emperor's second-in-command) long before the Battle of Yavin. Emperor is Commander-In-Chief, Vader is Vice-Commander-In-Chief.

 

I think that Vader has a very high military rank in ANH.

But Tarkin is not military, he is a governor, a politician. Therefore in the section of space Tarkin resides over (and the Death Star), he has authority. According to the Tarkin novel, Vader also has respect for him which further explains why he acts the way he does in ANH. Tarkin did call him a friend in that movie.

I think Motti making fun of Vader is owed to the fact that he is one of Tarkin's cronies and under his protection, making him feel secure enough to dare challenge Vader. I don't think he would have done it without having Tarkin around.

 

We know from TCW that Tarkin was military - an Admiral - it's possible that the "regional governors" are to all intents and purposes military officers - with the Empire being a dictatorship with many dictators rather than one - all answering to the supreme dictator who is Palpatine.

 

Well, in the Tarkin novel he gives up his military career for politics.

 

1. Vader always seemed to be Palpatine's right hand man, and was basically allowed to do mostly whatever he pleased, therefore outranking all of the member's of the Imperial military.
2. As for Tarkin, the title of Grand Moff (and Moff to a lesser extent)is sort of like the real world equivalent of a Military Governor, where you get the perks of being not only being part of the military, but also hold a good deal of political power.

 

IMO Vader was a stand in jedi turned sith traitor apprentice who's purpose was to be the emperor's tincan servant till someone whole came along.

 

Vader was doing the Emperor's bidding in numerous matters. We saw him come in to evaluate matters and at times, make decisions on projects others were overseeing. Tarkin had power and control over the DS and in his sector, but in ANH, a rebel coming on board conflicted with Vader's pet project. So he had to bow to Vader in that aspect, although Vader clearly respected his leadership. I think it would depend on the leader and how much respect they showed for Vader and the Emperor, as well as their importance to the Emperor and/or his plans. Vader would adjust accordingly, but ultimately, he was the most powerful and the wiser in the Empire recognized and respected it.

We saw that play out with Tarkin. Remember his "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you enough clairvoyance to find the rebels' hidden fortress..." Many obviously did not believe in the Force or the full extent of it because they had not witnessed it first hand (which makes sense as all the Jedi were in hiding and Vaders exploits would be put down to legend and his "religion" ridiculed among the military. He had his 501st after all). Vader would then make them an example. After Tarkin died, it would make sense that we'd see Vader in charge of the Emperor's new pet project.

 

That was Admiral Motti.

 

Yup, and Tarkin had to call off Vader. I think the idea was that most officers and much of the military did not know what Vader was capable of. His own regimen did of course and you have to imagine it did the rounds. But I think it was considered exaggerated tales and lies.

 

Considering how little time had gone by since the Clone Wars (19 years) that's a little odd. Still, in the EU the Empire does its best to portray the Jedi as not just traitors but frauds as well, in some of the books. They may have done such a good job that people who were around back then have come to believe it.

 

That is a good point. But I agree it is odd since so little time had passed. While some might believe the Jedi were frauds, so many had witnessed their actions first hand, so it is hard to believe.

 

That's the thing about frauds; they can be convincing.

 

Vader is the most iconic good guy in cinema.

 

Vader's status was high enough that he had free reign to do pretty much whatever he pleased as long as he did the emperor's bidding. I often wonder how the Imperials would have reacted to Vader if he didn't get sliced and charbroiled and still looked like Anakin.

 

He wouldn't have been as intimidating without the armor and helmet. The look of the armor coupled with the mystery of what or who is behind the mask just added to the fear he could instill in people. His power with the Force would have of course made up for a lack of suit and armor as far as intimidation goes. It would have been interesting.

To me Vader has always been clearly second to none but Palpatine. Tarkin was a high ranking member of the Empire and loyal to the Emperor. The DS was his assignment, his project, his baby, whatever you want to call it. Vader did take a bit of a back seat to Tarkin when it comes to the DS. We see that he is not that impressed with it anyway. His only interest in it is that Palpatine is interested in it and he means to do what the Emperor wants. If Tarkin or anyone else steps out of line with what Palps wants Vader would be more than happy to cut them down. There is a mutual respect between Vader and Tarkin to a degree, but Tarkin knows how to walk the line. If Vader had really wanted Motti dead, he would have been dead at that table and not when the DS exploded. He just wanted to remind them who was in charge. Tarkin knew that too. Tarkin was saving face in front of the brass, and Vader knew that as well. Hence, Tarkin's survival of ordering Vader to stand down. Power and politics. That's the way I see it anyway.

 

I agree he wouldn't have been as intimidating without the armor, but the angry Sith eyes would freak people out.

 

I never saw this personally, I mean, I know why you would... what with the officer mouthing off to him and Vader obeying Grand Admiral Tarkin, but I never saw that as him being another officer. Even during that scene, he's walking around the table while the other officers sit, as if he's over watching their meeting, and not being a part of it except to tell certain officers that they're being fools. As for Vader listening to Tarkin, I felt it was more his choice to listen, his force choking was more so used as a threat tactic, just to show everyone the force was more powerful than they knew. Tarkin is somewhat his equal here, leading the meeting as the Emporer's representative, but if Vader really wanted to, he could turn around and kill him and what would the Emporer do? Nothing.

He also leads the attack on the Tantive IV, as we're shown with the most awesome character introduction scene of all time. He's not just a storm trooper shooting Rebels, he's there to make sure business gets taken care of.