Lit Vader's Hobby of "YOU HAVE FAILED ME"

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Slowpokeking, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    When he was Anakin he was quite nice to his soldiers, even when he became Vader in EP III he didn't seem to have interest in execute his servants because their failure. Why did he love to choke the imperial officers so much after he became a cyborg?
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  2. DarthBarrister Jedi Master

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  3. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    It's possible that this is actually one of those things the EU kind of blew out of proportion, by assuming that Vader did it all the time. Onscreen, he strangles three people - Tagge (or Motti? Never been sure who's who in that scene) for insulting him, Ozzel, and Needa. He doesn't kill Tagge and specifically says that Ozzel had failed him multiple times before. Needa and his reaction when the Falcon escapes are really the only things to suggest that choking people to death was Vader's standard response to failure.
  4. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

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    Well, if you choke two of your employees to death within a few days of each other, you should expect to earn a reputation. Fair or not.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Feb 28, 2014
  5. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

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    How many officers did he kill through the movies and EU overall?
  6. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    I always saw it as an indication of Vader's obsession, rather than ordinary behavior, and TBH I think that interpretation is more insightful to Vader's character.
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  7. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    I think it was Marvel Star Wars that first decided it was something of a signature trait of Vader's.

    To the extent that he killed so many officers, that there was a conspiracy to assassinate him. Which failed.

    It isn't always strangling though. In Splinter of the Mind's Eye- from the same publishing era, he chops Grammel in half with his lightsaber - and in a Marvel story, he Mind Tricks an officer into going into an airlock and spacing themselves.

    Novelization said Tagge, all other sources, including the Marvel version of ANH, said Motti. The novelization scene is rather different from the movie version.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 28, 2014
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  8. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

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    Remember that it's usually the officers he goes Homer Simpson on, and not the rank and file soldiers themselves.

    By the time of the Empire, I think there's a far wider gulf between the two than between clone officers and soldiers.
  9. Nobody145 Force Ghost

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    Yeah, Vader is much different than even late Episode III Anakin. By the OT, he's lost the only person he really cared about (dead by his own hands as far as he knows), so either he doesn't care about anybody else or he takes his anger out on them. He usually doesn't show it, but there's still a lot of rage there. Also, arguably, as mentioned, being nice with fellow troops is one thing, as Jedi fought on the frontlines. Vader dealing with officers and uppity bureaucrats... well, if they show a lack of faith in the Force, he'll give them a demonstration. Basically, troopers just go out and win or die. Officers are supposed to be able to handle things, and when they don't, that's why he kills both Ozzel and Needa.

    Although in ESB its a bit of a special case as there Vader is obsessed with finding Luke, and capturing Luke's close friends is the key to luring Luke into his trap. So he's particularly grumpy there.

    I think even the Warfare noted how Piett surviving the Falcon's escape at Bespin was unusual, but of course the Navy has no idea what's going on in Vader's head. At that point, Vader was more reflective on his first father to son conversation than looking for a target to take his anger out on. (Before anyone nitpicks, I mean Vader finally had the chance to reveal the truth to Luke and try to recruit him, not counting their earlier encounters).

    I remember Robot Chicken did this hilarious skit about Vader killing (or thinking he could kill) Imperial officers with his mind. That was entertaining.
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  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    I'm cracking up at "going all Homer Simpson." [face_laugh]

    Now imagining Vader saying "Why you little...!" to Ozzel.
  11. stung4ever Force Ghost

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  12. Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master

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    At least he's not killing them with a tray.
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  13. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    Also, if I remember correctly, he particularly hate Ozzel because Ozzel has a constant screw up that only got his rank because of his family connections, whereas he liked Piett because Piett worked his way from a backwater command in the Rim and did a good job there.
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  14. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

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    But Needa's death is a bit cruel.
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  15. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

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    I kind of hated how the EU made Piett kind of a conniving suck-up who constantly deflected blame onto others. I prefer to think of him as just being a highly competent officer who Vader legitimately respects, like Daine Jir.

    Although next time he's trying to disable a renegade starship, I'd recommend he order his mechanics do something a little more involved than just flipping a switch to the "off" position.

    At the very least I doubt he does it as often as he does in ESB. Otherwise he'd deplete the entire officer corps within the space of a month.
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Mar 1, 2014
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  16. Revanfan1 Chosen One

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    Jun 3, 2013
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    Me too. It doesn't really fit with his characterization in ESB or ROTJ. I always liked Piett in the movies because he was just doing his job.

    When was this established?
  17. VadersLaMent Chosen One

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    Vader probably watches holonet fail vids.
  18. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

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    I totally buy how kill-crazy Vader is in the EU to his officers if only, as mentioned, the guy has been Sith-lording it up for almost 2 decades (over 2 by the time ESB hits!) so I'm sure the sense of comradery Anakin had with the military had long faded by that point. Also, Anakin seemed cool with the rank-and-file soldiers but never exactly got along with the other generals, ie. the other Jedi, so the Imp officers that Vader keeps strangling are sort similar to the higher-up military pencil pushers and not the "on the ground" stormtroopers (who Vader literally storms Echo Base with).
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Mar 1, 2014
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  19. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

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    But many other Sith Lords aren't that interested on kill their servants for failure. Even Sidious didn't do it that much (quite a few times of course).
  20. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

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    Nov 12, 2012
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    Well then I think you can assume Vader enjoyed and employed the tactic a bit more than most. Guy was oddly temperamental, even by Sith standards.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Mar 1, 2014
  21. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

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    Sep 21, 2012
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    Many Sith Lords love "YOU HAVE OUTLIVED YOUR USEFULNESS" than "YOU HAVE FAILED ME", did Vader do it many times?
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

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    A period of rapidly depleted officer corps would explain why the survivors tried to assassinate him - in the Resurrection of Evil/To Take The Tarkin arc of Marvel Star Wars:

    "I was just restating our position: we have of late seen too many of our fellow officers fall to Vader's sorcerous ways -- it appears that any human mistake may well lead to an inhuman end at the Sith Lord's hand! Therefore a plan has been formulated and approved, abd we are all in agreement ... that before this day is over ... Darth Vader must DIE!"

    "Too many of our fellow officers have died at the Dark Lord's whim, all for making mistakes that anyone human could have understood. And any of us might be next -- unless we stop Vader first!"
  23. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    I really liked that subplot.
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  24. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."

    Sure, Palpatine didn't personally choke people, but had fifty different assassin organizations and...well, just look what he did the guy who designed the Death Star.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
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    In Tales of the Bounty Hunters, when Vader's talking to Dengar:

    "I'm not the Emperor," Vader said ominously. "I don't kill for amusement - only when it serves my purposes."