Vader's meditation chamber: Learning how to retain Force identity?

Darth Vader's meditation chamber is the only place he can breath without his mask and other lung aids. Doing this allows him to work towards gaining some of the physical freedoms he once had, though it is a very long and slow process, and he will never fully heal, what with the the mechanical arms and legs. (as stated by George Lucas himself)

But I think there's more to it than this, and there is a Spoilers Thread with some nice speculation in it, which is where some of my idea will come from, more specifically from dehrian, with myself adding on to the subject.

After Obi-Wan did his disappearing act in A New Hope, Vader wasn't completely sure what happened. From the novel: (dialogue in bold)

• Vader took immediate advantage of the momentary distraction to bring his saber over and down. Kenobi somehow managed to deflect the sweeping blow, at once parrying and turning a complete circle.
  
  "You still have you skill, but your power fades. Prepare to meet the Force, Obi-Wan.."
  
  Kenobi gauged the shrinking distance between the oncoming troops and himself, then turned a pitying gaze on Vader. "This is fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds it mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words."
  
  "Your philosophies no longer confuse me, old man," Vader growled contemptusously. "I am the master now."
  
  Once again he lunged forward, feinting, and then slashing in a deadly downward arc with the saber. It struck home, cutting the old man cleanly in half. There was a brief flash as Kenobi's cloak fluttered to the deck in two neat sections.
  
  But Ben Kenobi was not in it. Wary of some tricks, Vader poked at the empty cloak sections with the saber. There was no sign of the old man. He had vanished as though he had never existed.
  
  The guards slowed their approach and joined Vader in examining the place where Kenobi had stood seconds before. Several of them muttered, and even the awesome presence of the Sith Lord couldn't keep a few of them from feeling a little afraid.

This shows that Vader had no idea what was going on. Of course, he had reason to believe that Obi-Wan may have been right -- that Obi-Wan would become extremely powerful.

Being that Vader had to follow the Falcon to Yavin 4 then jump in his fighter and take place in a massive space battle, he may not have had a lot of time to think about it -- until he was in the fighter, following Luke down the Death Star trench.

Through the Force, people have "signatures," in other words, the Force is unique in each person. With familiarity, someone close to someone else can sense that person's Force signature (I guess like a supernatural fingerprint), and know that it's them.

A child has Force signatures of both parents mixed together within them, but both parents' "signatures" must be recognizable as well for someone to notice them. The pilot Vader was following down the trench was his son -- having both his own and Padme's Force signature, though Luke had his own unique one at the same time. "The Force is strong with this one." He could sense the Force strongly in Luke, and perhaps felt a bit of recognition as well, from both himself and his (presumably) deceased wife.

But that's not all. We know that Obi-Wan spoke to Luke through the Force, much in the same way that Yoda could hear Qui-Gon's voice in Attack of the Clones. In doing this, it is my speculation that Obi-Wan caused a Force-surge, by sending his voice from the Force-afterlife, and in turn Vader sense something from Obi-Wan's spirit too. He knows that whoever this darn kid is, he must be strong in the Force to have 1) a familiar Force sense and 2) the presence of Obi-Wan near him still. T

 

You really expect me to read that?

When I finish with it next week I'll tell you what I think.

 

Of course, he had reason to believe that Obi-Wan may have been right -- that Obi-Wan would become extremely powerful.

What was this reason? Not arguing with you, but I don't see where Vader would believe anything Obi would say, especially after what happened between them so many years ago.

Obi-Wan did something unknown and unexpected, something he couldn't do. He was probably jealous of this.

At the point of ANH and actually throughout the rest of the OT, there's no evidence that Vader ever really knew what Obi-Wan accomplished with disappearing. For all we see, if we take Vader's point of view, the old man simply vanished and never came back. There was no way Vader could know that Obi-Wan helped Luke from beyond the grave and even then, Obi never trained Luke past the point of the lessons given to him on the Falcon. The only thing Obi-Wan did was direct Luke to Yoda, and advise him after Yoda died. So I have to say, "jealous of what?" It always was, and always will be a puzzle to me as to why Obi said "I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." What did he actually do that was powerful? Ok, he retained his identity after death, I know that must have taken alot of study and hard work, but the fact for me remains that Obi-Wan was still a ghostly figure with only words as his weapon and nothing else. There was no way for him to stop Vader, or the Emperor.

The only disturbances are the occasional Imperial officers who come to tell him that they have the Falcon, which gives him an almost constant peace while in the chamber.

I hadda laugh when I read this, cause it's so true. Poor Vader never had a chance at capturing the Falcon, it always slipped through is fingers. He'd had plenty of peace, probably much more than he ever wanted

The whole 'disappearing' thing falls apart anyway (IMHO), since GL says that Anakin disappeared after he died in RotJ. I am of the opinion that Anakin never disappeared and that he was never meant to, since it was never filmed that way. My first impression when seeing RotJ was that Anakin was 'helped' by Yoda and Obi-Wan because he'd had no idea how to retain his identity or appear as a ghost.

Of course, my opinion could change after viewing EPIII, I have no clue as to how this will be resolved, or what role Qui-Gon might play.

 

What was this reason? Not arguing with you, but I don't see where Vader would believe anything Obi would say, especially after what happened between them so many years ago.

I believe it had something to do with the fact that Obi-Wan disappeared right before Vader's eyes.

At the point of ANH and actually throughout the rest of the OT, there's no evidence that Vader ever really knew what Obi-Wan accomplished with disappearing.

But at the same time, Vader knows that whatever it is, he can't do it.

So I have to say, "jealous of what?"

That he can't do whatever Obi-Wan did. He thinks he's more powerful than any Jedi is, then Obi-Wan comes in and does something he doens't even know about.

Of course, my opinion could change after viewing EPIII, I have no clue as to how this will be resolved, or what role Qui-Gon might play.

Yeah, we may or may not find out about it, depending on if Lucas changes his mind or not.

 

I believe it had something to do with the fact that Obi-Wan disappeared right before Vader's eyes.

Yea, but IMHO, the disappearing in itself wasn't that big a deal, I mean c'mon, Obi should have at least haunted Vader or something; showing up in the middle of the night and scaring the crap outta Vader probably woulda made him wonder how/why Obi did that. Now that's something I wouldn't mind knowing how to do

 

In Shadows of the Empire they have a cool little passage with Vader in his meditation chamber dealing with strengthining himself physically without the suit.

 

Yeah, that was an awesome passage. I think there was more to it than what we read in the book, obviously.

 

Yes, obviously. How long could he go on breathing without his helmet again. Like a couple of minutes or something?

 

I don't remember for sure; it's been a long time since I've read the book. I know it wasn't more than a few minutes though. I need to reread that book sometime.

 

Yeah I only read it once too. I forgot practically everything that happens on the planet Zahr with Boba Fett and a lot of the parts with Dash Rendar.

 

I think it was only a few minutes, I completely forgot about this thread until I was looking through my recent posts, so I haven't looked it up yet.

 

I'd look it up if I had my copy with me but my collection is at home and I'm still in the dorm
But, if memory serves me correctly, it was only a couple of minutes, and he'd had to work himself up to make it that long.

Excellent points, JMO, I'd never thought about that in depth before.

 

Great breakdown.