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CT Vader's thoughts upon meeting Luke in ESB?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Darth Arthurius, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Darth Arthurius

    Darth Arthurius Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Are there any insight into what Vader was thinking about Luke throughout their first meeting/duel on Cloud City? I have to imagine it must've been a range of emotions seeing his son, who he thought was dead, for the first time, and also seeing how strong his son was with the Force.
     
  2. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    It is not the first time they meet actually. They first meet soon after ANH in canon.
     
  3. Sara_Kenobi

    Sara_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2000
    I always felt Vader was impressed by Luke. But also very jealous.
     
  4. Darth Vader's Chest Plate

    Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    "I like you! I told them not to be so proud of the technological terror they created, but oh no they didn't listen. I told then, the power of the force was much greater than the ability to destroy a planet, but oh no they didn't listen. They said I couldn't find the rebel's hidden fortress and i did.
    You helped me prove all the naysayers wrong, whilst also using the force, irony!!"

    But he got overwhelmed and forgot it all.
    He'd even planned a party on Bespin for him, but the guy with the ice-cream machine was running late, so once again Vader got angry. Then Han, Leia, Chewbacca and his old Tatooine mate C3-PO arrived early and he just got even more angry.

    Well that's my head canon for events! [face_liarliar]
     
  5. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    It’s hard to say. At this point in the story, Darth Vader truly is “more machine than man”, if I may paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi. It obviously ends up stirring a serious emotional conflict in him, but within the moment, he’s very cold and dispassionate about it. He doesn’t see Luke Skywalker as his son, someone to love and care for, but as a useful tool and ally in his quest to overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy himself. He obviously knows, as both Obi-Wan and the Emperor know, that his offspring would be a serious threat to the Emperor. And he believes that he can leverage the familial connection to make Luke turn (obviously, that doesn’t work).

    He’s still twisted and evil at this point, you must remember. Only towards the end does he manage to unearth a never-before-seen compassion within himself.
     
  6. Darth Arthurius

    Darth Arthurius Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    It's just weird to see Vader in ESB. Seeing him interact with a whole new generation of heroes. People being in the same situations he was in the prequels and not giving a damn. Just using Leia and Chewie as leverage. Torturing Han without any mercy or care. Vader in ESB is truly, in many ways, a totally different person from Anakin. It really is like Anakin is dead. Even the way he speaks is unlike Anakin.
     
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  7. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    I don't know what 'canon' you refer to, but there's no hint in the films, the novelizations or the radio drama.

    I concur with @Kuro, just look how fiercly he tries to hit Luke with his lightsaber inside the corridor of the weather vane complex. If Luke hadn't been fast enough, he would have been dead.

    The way that scene unfolds I'd say that Vader would have accepted Luke's death had Luke not proven himself to be an adequate opponent.

    However, I can't help but wonder whether Vader made the 'mistake' of playing the "My son" card. It almost appears (at the end of ESB) as if he starts to think about the issue more thoroughly than ever before... [face_thinking]

    At the occasion here is the scene from the October 1978 draft (before Vader had become Luke's father):

    VADER
    The Force runs strong in the Skywalker line. You will achieve great power… Come, join with me! Together we will be the most powerful… even stronger than The Emperor.

    (INSERT B – DIALOGUE ADDED HERE)

    LUKE
    No!… Never…

    Luke starts backing away from Vader, his strength gone at last.

    VADER
    There is no escape. You must join me or die. Don’t make me destroy you here… The Emperor is strong with The Force. But if you join me, together we could overthrow Him. Do not resist. It is our destiny!

    LUKE
    Never.

    Luke lunges for Vader with his laser sword, but misses. He stumbles to the other side of the platform. In the distance, the wind can be heard working its way up the long shaft. Luke is out of breath, exhausted, bleeding. He hears the wind rising and gives Vader a long, hard look.

    LUKE
    Never!

    Luke staggers to the edge of the platform and jumps off into the endless abyss. Vader rages in disbelief.

    VADER
    No!
     
  8. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Well, when Vader had some time to really think about his relationship with Luke, I think it stirred something within him that he’d probably thought he’d quashed long ago.

    Also, reading the original version of the climax, I can totally see why George Lucas felt the need to add the familial connection to spice it up. Without the “I am your father” bombshell, it just plays sorta flat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  9. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Impressive.....Most Impressive
     
  10. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Splinter of the Minds Eye?
    As to Old Canon (but not really) met before
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  11. Noir Deux

    Noir Deux Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Remember that the new comics are canon too, and what Jedi Knight Fett mentions happens in the first numbers of the series ‘Star wars’ covering what happens with the main trio between ANH-ESB.
     
    firesaber likes this.
  12. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    He was probably very focused on getting him to turn
     
  13. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    The Emperor had told him that Luke was the son of Anakin so somewhat surprised at this. Anakin was dead in body and soul now was a chance to be formerly introduced to his son. He was already crazily obsessed with finding Luke i take this as meaning that Luke had foiled him back at the Death Star and Vader wanted to return the favour Sith style.
     
  14. darth-skycrawler

    darth-skycrawler Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Why do you sayjealous? I never ever got the sense that Vader was ever jealous of Luke. Even in ROTJ, I think his love for Luke meant he was preparing himself for Luke to become the new Sith Lord and future ruler of the galaxy (which is against the traditional Sith mentality).
     
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  15. Kladdagh

    Kladdagh Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2017
    The confrontation was inevitable ... Vader wanted Luke to join him ... at all cost ... =O
     
  16. JediMasterSven

    JediMasterSven Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2014
    He also forgot to sweeten the deal with his full plan for afterward they overthrow the Emperor. Namely once they were ruling the galaxy , they'd take in a Pod Race together and catch up. And maybe they would change the name from "Galactic Empire" to "Vader and Son's Galactic Monarchy". And with Palpatine out of the way, he'd set his son up with a cute red-headed assassin in their employ.
    Vader: 'What was her name...Lara Cade? Sara Rade? Eh, who cares."

    But in seriousness, in issue five or six of Marvel's Vader comic is pretty much what we see on How it Should have Ended for Empire Strikes Back, "I have a son." Except not as giddy, and he doesn't run around the Star Destroyer telling everything and everyone including the mouse droid that he's a father.
     
  17. IrB

    IrB Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2016
    IMHO, Vader isn't that ruthless in this point of the duel. His movements look to me too wide, more towards the walls and not very straight against Luke. Luke must run away of course, but he will be very dumb, if he wasn't able to, because Vader leaves him space to run after all. That isn't the way to go against someone, if you want really to harm him. When he means really harm, he go straight to Luke's hand and Luke hasn't time to react. So, in the corridor, IMHO, Vader is just like: "Well, let's make this a little tougher!" and not really angry. When he does get angry for being hit, the duel ends in - how long? - 4 seconds or so.
     
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  18. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
  19. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    He certainly did when it came to Han Solo although he did say "the force is strong with this one" in relation to Luke.
     
  20. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Yep. He always had mental trauma, but he was this theatrical monster who utterly accepted his new way of life and saw no way out....and didn’t want a way out. He was only thinking about killing the Emperor and ruling the galaxy with Luke at that point.
     
  21. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I concur. I believe these feelings were accentuated by the time of ROTJ. You can tell that he feels pride, jealousy, fear, love, and other emotions when Luke confronts him. That's why we like Vader. There's a lot going on there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  22. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Could even be a jealousy stemming from his own days as a young Jedi. He’s reminded of a life that simply doesn’t exist for him anymore. He’s now living the life of Palptine’s enforcer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  23. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd The Man / Also Known as Bazinga'd star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Or......

    Vader: (thinks) So this is the whinny SOB who blew up the Death Star. :p
     
  24. jc1138

    jc1138 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2004
    His initial thoughts when meeting Luke in ESB (I'm not counting things like the "canon" comics, just the films please) seem to include:
    -"I am in total control of this situation"
    -"I am anxious to see how this plays out"
    -"Let's see how much this boy knows"
    -"What is the best pressure point to press to turn him?"
     
  25. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2017
    IMO -

    Anakin had respected Palpatine as a father figure and mentor until his loss to Obi Wan when he truly realized what he had done and that there was no going back. At that point he became trapped in a bubble of hate and self loathing that persisted until he realized he had a son who was willing to risk his life to bring Vader back from the darkness and into the light.

    In ESB Vader was surprised and impressed by Luke's abilities and realized he could use his son to help do what he would not be capable of on his own, defeat Palpitine, the person who was at the root of Anakins fall and losses.

    By the time of ROTJ the internal conflict between Vader and Anakin had begun to break thru Vaders defenses and culminated in Vader killing Palpitine and saving Luke.

    Some of the novels show Vaders thoughts and below is a video on this topic -