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Oceania Vegemite for morons

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Katana_Geldar, Sep 8, 2005.

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  1. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    The way I see it, ES, is that there are two major reasons why people love to bash America.

    1) Their government. Although people bashed Americans under previous governments, I get the feeling that much of the anger is directed towards the US because of the actions of Bush and the like.

    2) Their cultural dominance. Many people think they know Americans because when they turn on the TV, more often than not they'll see an American. When they go to the movies, they'll see an American. Therefore, the overbaring characteristics that some Americans can show in real life are seen as merely an extension of this.

    I think, that while your defence against blanket generalisations is admirable, you've also got to try and understand why there would be such generalisations in the first place, justified or not.
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I do understand, but I expect more from people.

    After all, are we to be judged by the actions of say, Russell Crowe? That all Aussies do is get drunk, are up themselves and start fights? I mean, I'm sure we've all been somewhere overseas and cringed at the drunken oaf who also happens to be our compatriot? Would we be pissed if people said all Aussies are like that? Admit it, we're annoyed that the Crocodile Hunter is seen by many as reflecting Australians!

    Generalisations are a haughtier way of covering up a mob mentality, and they're intellectually lazy. Of course there's a factual basis for them, but it's so diluted that the purpose isn't conveyed to others who generalise. It's simply, "oh, everyone says Americans are this, and I'll trust [for example] Triple J over my own research on Bush, weee, is there room on that bandwagon for one more?"

    You don't have to love America either, you just need to set the bar a bit higher for yourself so it doesn't sound like a hive mind reciting reasons why America is teh suxx0r.

    E_S

  3. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    Let me just jump on the ES bandwagon and say that I have been to America numerous times and have always felt welcome. The Americans I have met in my travels have always been friendly, considerate and concerned about how the outside world perceives them. Sure, I've met a couple of ignorant dumbasses but that's true of Australia too - just turn on Channel 10 news any day of the week.
  4. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Here are two good examples on how ignorant Americans are or are seen to be:

    Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

    Changed because it was feared no one in America would know what a Philospher's Stone was. (It explains in the book!)

    The Americanisations on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory whoch was clearly set in England.
  5. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    You know Katana I'd never have thought you could stuff both feet in your mouth, but wow, you've done it.

    Some examples of how ignorant Australians are:

    1) They shorten words and proper nouns into vernacular familiars, eg Robert becomes Robbo, John becomes Jono, vegetables become veggies.
    2) The Crocodile Hunter. What are those guys thinking?
    3) Fosters Beer - tastes disgusting!

    You see, I can indulge in comparitively stupid generalisations too, only we know the context so it shows that such generalisations are, frankly, obtuse.

    Katana, how many times have you been to America? 0? I thought so. And how many Americans do you know in real life and not on the boards? 0?

    Ignorance isn't bliss, so wipe the grin off your face. ;)

    I guess what I'm saying is that I can tell that's not your own opinion. I've seen it so many times before, I know it's just rehashed. Think for yourself, Katana, make your own opinions up and don't be afraid if they're not widely embraced by the faceless masses. You'll feel better about being true to yourself.

    E_S
  6. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Very true Ender Sai, very true indeed. We have to think for ourselves.

    But a lot of what I've heard about how ignorant Americans are from Americans themselves.
    I don't like sterotyping, we can't judge the masses by the actions of a few. But if you have word from people who are actually there who'se views support your own you can't help it.
  7. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    But a lot of what I've heard about how ignorant Americans are from Americans themselves.

    Let me guess, Michael Moore?

    And I think some Australians are quite ignorant too. Now you've heard an Australian say it, it must be correct and you are now free to generalise. Enjoy!
  8. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    No from people I've talked to on the Net.
  9. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Which represents a disproportionate segment of society; and thus not an accurate enough slice to make it acceptable.

    E_S
  10. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    What's with all the Michael Moore bashing? He doesn't say all Americans are stupid, and the fact that someone would accept his opinion would surely show that they believe that not all Americans are stupid, as you sort of pointed out yourself. :confused:


    Anyway. I've seen some bad anti-Americisms in my life, but that was some of the best, Katana. I like your style, making rampant generalisations with no basis in fact up against Mr. Senate over there, ES. Good luck. :D
  11. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5

    Because he's a propagandist who pretends to be otherwise. Oh, and then there's all those little errors in his books (er, novels) and documentaries (see: science fiction).

    Well he does hold himself in high regard. ;)
  12. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    Bah. I see there is no use discussing Moore with you then.
  13. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
  14. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    I've taken the bait before... sorry. :p
  15. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I used to love Michael Moore. I watched The Awful Truth when it aired on Comedy Channell in 1999, and back then, he was compelling, essential television.

    I watched Bowling for Columbine but thought that ultimately the best points were left unexplored by Moore in his quest to make this all about how badly whites treat blacks.

    Fahrenheit annoyed me no end. It made no attempt to point out the shortcomings of the Bush Administration - it was simply a one side, sloppy piece of subjective editorialism dressed up as a documentary and deliberately slanted. I could forgive the rampant mistakes in BFC (fallacies, in some cases - see www.bowlingfortruth.com) and I guess I could forgive the disgusting manner Moore treated Charlton Heston in (he didn't have to give an interview to Moore, he did it out of courtesy which Moore refused to reciprocate) because it was at least through provoking (albeit in all the wrong ways.)

    But when I saw the "Iraq before America went in" bit with happy families and flying kites, I knew Moore had totally lost the plot.

    Hence, why I don't trust Moore. Once Bush got elected, he lost his sense of fighting injustice which, despite it's leftist taint, I could at least respect because I hate bullies.

    E_S
  16. Syrix_Kahl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2001
    star 4
    woah! hold up a second... to coin a phrase: What The?

    or indeed, another phrase: Please Explain!

    plz rewatch. kthxbi!!
  17. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Yeah, I just noticed that.

    Maybe she's upset that Willy Wonka is American this time, unlike say Gene Wilder? o_O

    E_S
  18. Loopster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 4
    I've been to America three times. Well, the mainland twice and Hawaii three times. I've got one thing to say about all this US bashing and how wrong Michael Moore is etc.

    That is the vegemite site is totally wrong. No-one eats brown bread. Also the crusts are not cut off. Idiots. That is totally un-Australian and anyone who disagrees with me is un-Australian and as stupid as those stupid seppos.
  19. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    I didn't mind the fact that Wily Wonka was American, I could live with that.
    But with the setting that was obviously British and using Americanisations...[face_sick]

    I actually quite liked the movie though and thought Johnny Depp was fantastic in the role, but be consistent please!
  20. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    Can you please give an example of an Americanisation?
  21. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Okay...

    When Charlie gets his Golden Ticket someone wants to buy it off him for $500. Not quid, dollars.
  22. stinrab Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 5
    That's a travesty and clearly illustrates how stupid Americans are.

    On a related note: when they dub American ads with Australian accents, does that illustrate how stupid Australians are or how stupid Australians are seen to be? Didn't think so.
  23. Loopster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2000
    star 4
  24. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    "Be consistent"? To whom are you addressing this request, Katana?

    Loopster; roofle @ seppo.

    E_S
  25. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    No one really I guess, but I did actually like the movie
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