Oceania Vegemite for morons

The way I see it, ES, is that there are two major reasons why people love to bash America.

1) Their government. Although people bashed Americans under previous governments, I get the feeling that much of the anger is directed towards the US because of the actions of Bush and the like.

2) Their cultural dominance. Many people think they know Americans because when they turn on the TV, more often than not they'll see an American. When they go to the movies, they'll see an American. Therefore, the overbaring characteristics that some Americans can show in real life are seen as merely an extension of this.

I think, that while your defence against blanket generalisations is admirable, you've also got to try and understand why there would be such generalisations in the first place, justified or not.

 

I do understand, but I expect more from people.

After all, are we to be judged by the actions of say, Russell Crowe? That all Aussies do is get drunk, are up themselves and start fights? I mean, I'm sure we've all been somewhere overseas and cringed at the drunken oaf who also happens to be our compatriot? Would we be pissed if people said all Aussies are like that? Admit it, we're annoyed that the Crocodile Hunter is seen by many as reflecting Australians!

Generalisations are a haughtier way of covering up a mob mentality, and they're intellectually lazy. Of course there's a factual basis for them, but it's so diluted that the purpose isn't conveyed to others who generalise. It's simply, "oh, everyone says Americans are this, and I'll trust [for example] Triple J over my own research on Bush, weee, is there room on that bandwagon for one more?"

You don't have to love America either, you just need to set the bar a bit higher for yourself so it doesn't sound like a hive mind reciting reasons why America is teh suxx0r.

E_S

 

Let me just jump on the ES bandwagon and say that I have been to America numerous times and have always felt welcome. The Americans I have met in my travels have always been friendly, considerate and concerned about how the outside world perceives them. Sure, I've met a couple of ignorant dumbasses but that's true of Australia too - just turn on Channel 10 news any day of the week.

 

Here are two good examples on how ignorant Americans are or are seen to be:

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

Changed because it was feared no one in America would know what a Philospher's Stone was. (It explains in the book!)

The Americanisations on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory whoch was clearly set in England.

 

You know Katana I'd never have thought you could stuff both feet in your mouth, but wow, you've done it.

Some examples of how ignorant Australians are:

1) They shorten words and proper nouns into vernacular familiars, eg Robert becomes Robbo, John becomes Jono, vegetables become veggies.
2) The Crocodile Hunter. What are those guys thinking?
3) Fosters Beer - tastes disgusting!

You see, I can indulge in comparitively stupid generalisations too, only we know the context so it shows that such generalisations are, frankly, obtuse.

Katana, how many times have you been to America? 0? I thought so. And how many Americans do you know in real life and not on the boards? 0?

Ignorance isn't bliss, so wipe the grin off your face.

I guess what I'm saying is that I can tell that's not your own opinion. I've seen it so many times before, I know it's just rehashed. Think for yourself, Katana, make your own opinions up and don't be afraid if they're not widely embraced by the faceless masses. You'll feel better about being true to yourself.

E_S

 

Very true Ender Sai, very true indeed. We have to think for ourselves.

But a lot of what I've heard about how ignorant Americans are from Americans themselves.
I don't like sterotyping, we can't judge the masses by the actions of a few. But if you have word from people who are actually there who'se views support your own you can't help it.

 

But a lot of what I've heard about how ignorant Americans are from Americans themselves.

Let me guess, Michael Moore?

And I think some Australians are quite ignorant too. Now you've heard an Australian say it, it must be correct and you are now free to generalise. Enjoy!

 

No from people I've talked to on the Net.

 

Which represents a disproportionate segment of society; and thus not an accurate enough slice to make it acceptable.

E_S

 

What's with all the Michael Moore bashing? He doesn't say all Americans are stupid, and the fact that someone would accept his opinion would surely show that they believe that not all Americans are stupid, as you sort of pointed out yourself.


Anyway. I've seen some bad anti-Americisms in my life, but that was some of the best, Katana. I like your style, making rampant generalisations with no basis in fact up against Mr. Senate over there, ES. Good luck.

 

Because he's a propagandist who pretends to be otherwise. Oh, and then there's all those little errors in his books (er, novels) and documentaries (see: science fiction).

Well he does hold himself in high regard.

 

Bah. I see there is no use discussing Moore with you then.

 

Booooooooo

 

I've taken the bait before... sorry.

 

I used to love Michael Moore. I watched The Awful Truth when it aired on Comedy Channell in 1999, and back then, he was compelling, essential television.

I watched Bowling for Columbine but thought that ultimately the best points were left unexplored by Moore in his quest to make this all about how badly whites treat blacks.

Fahrenheit annoyed me no end. It made no attempt to point out the shortcomings of the Bush Administration - it was simply a one side, sloppy piece of subjective editorialism dressed up as a documentary and deliberately slanted. I could forgive the rampant mistakes in BFC (fallacies, in some cases - see www.bowlingfortruth.com) and I guess I could forgive the disgusting manner Moore treated Charlton Heston in (he didn't have to give an interview to Moore, he did it out of courtesy which Moore refused to reciprocate) because it was at least through provoking (albeit in all the wrong ways.)

But when I saw the "Iraq before America went in" bit with happy families and flying kites, I knew Moore had totally lost the plot.

Hence, why I don't trust Moore. Once Bush got elected, he lost his sense of fighting injustice which, despite it's leftist taint, I could at least respect because I hate bullies.

E_S

 

woah! hold up a second... to coin a phrase: What The?

or indeed, another phrase: Please Explain!

plz rewatch. kthxbi!!

 

Yeah, I just noticed that.

Maybe she's upset that Willy Wonka is American this time, unlike say Gene Wilder?

E_S

 

I've been to America three times. Well, the mainland twice and Hawaii three times. I've got one thing to say about all this US bashing and how wrong Michael Moore is etc.

That is the vegemite site is totally wrong. No-one eats brown bread. Also the crusts are not cut off. Idiots. That is totally un-Australian and anyone who disagrees with me is un-Australian and as stupid as those stupid seppos.

 

I didn't mind the fact that Wily Wonka was American, I could live with that.
But with the setting that was obviously British and using Americanisations...

I actually quite liked the movie though and thought Johnny Depp was fantastic in the role, but be consistent please!

 

Can you please give an example of an Americanisation?

 

Okay...

When Charlie gets his Golden Ticket someone wants to buy it off him for $500. Not quid, dollars.

 

That's a travesty and clearly illustrates how stupid Americans are.

On a related note: when they dub American ads with Australian accents, does that illustrate how stupid Australians are or how stupid Australians are seen to be? Didn't think so.

 

They dub ads?

 

"Be consistent"? To whom are you addressing this request, Katana?

Loopster; roofle @ seppo.

E_S

 

No one really I guess, but I did actually like the movie