vegetarianism

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by AnakinsGirl, Jan 6, 2005.

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  1. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    most of you know by now that i am a vegetarian. and aside from the few who sling insults or ignorant steretypes on the lifestyle, i havent really heard any other responses.

    what do you think about vegetarianism? what don't you get about it?
    can you justify your 'meat-eating ways' as being morally correct, or vegetarianism as being morallly incorrect, etc?
    do you have any questions about philosophy and lifestyle (outside of "how can you not eat meat?")?
    why do you think humans should or should not eat meat?
    do you think animals should be regarded with a higher level of integrity than they are given now?
    ETC...

    discuss!
  2. im_posessed Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2002
    star 3
    Some people classify me as a vegitarian. Basically I don't like the taste of red meat, so I rearely eat it. I didn't eat it at all for a year and it didn't impact my life at all, I also didn't eat any other meat that year and was completely healthy. I do eat chicken and at the rare times pork, but its usually only 1 or 2 servings per week, if that.

    I see no moral reasons for or against eating meat, i just peronally don't like it.
  3. Green_Jedi33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2004
    star 3
    Well, IMO people can eat what they want and I won't judge them or insult. I won't lose sleep over how one eats, nor will it irritate me.

    I would find it funny and silly if another person tried to tell me what I should or should not eat.

    I eat meat and fish etc.

    Obviously there are things I wouldn't eat if they were either unsanitary or just disagreed with my palate.

    do you think animals should be regarded with a higher level of integrity than they are given now?

    No offence intended, but I think it's a funny question. I have a love for animals, and I know that many animals are treated badly, but I don't think that killing an animal for food is innapropriate. Being mean and cruel to animals is disgusting to me, but eating a Whopper with cheese isn't.
  4. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    i'm not going to be a know-it-all or boss you around, but all the meat you eat IS *very* unsanitary. don't worry; i'm not going to tell you what to do or what not to do, but i've just read a few books and done lots of research. i would consider at least buying meat from a local farmer; the conditions at smaller slaughterhouses are much cleaner and safer for you.
  5. Special_Fred Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    I have absolutely no problem with someone who chooses to be a vegetarian. In fact, I admire the discipline and self-control it sometimes takes to abstain from some pretty tasty foods. What I am strongly opposed to are those who become vegetarians for the wrong reasons (e.g., pity for the poor, defenseless animals), and then preach to people like me that it's wrong to eat meat. No matter what diet you choose for yourself, we must all accept that in order for us to survive, other creatures must die.

    can you justify your 'meat-eating ways' as being morally correct, or vegetarianism as being morallly incorrect, etc?

    I don't have to justify my 'meat-eating ways' at all. There cannot be life without death.

    EDIT: I agree with you, AnakinsGirl, regarding slaughterhouse sanitation. That's why I get most of my meat from animals I kill myself, or from friends and relatives who hunt. Believe it or not, I will rarely buy meat from a store, and never from a fast food joint like McDonald's or Taco Bell.
  6. Green_Jedi33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2004
    star 3
    I actually agree with you AnakinsGirl. I don't know anything about it but I'll take your word for it: that meat is very unsanitary in most cases. But I don't let it bother me much.

    Right now you are breathing in more germs than you can handle, yet you probably wouldn't seek to breathe out of tanks for the rest of your life.

    I just accept the unfortunate, dirty conditions mankind has to live in and look towards a brighter future.

    EDIT: And I agree with SpecialFred: I respect the discipline of vegetarians who like meat, but don't eat it for health reasons. There's nothing wrong with being a balanced vegetarian. Heck Adam and Eve were vegetarians and they were perfect! ^_^
  7. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    that meat is very unsanitary in most cases.

    If I don't get sick and if it doesn't taste funny, why do I care?

    I admire vegetarians, I think not eating meat for the sake of the animals is a valiant cause. But as much as I dislike that another living thing had to die for what's on my plate, I've accepted it as a sad part of life. We live, we die, and humans just happen to be the ones at the top of the food chain. Yay for us, bad for the food.
  8. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    The meat I eat is usually very sanitary :D

    But thats cause I eat kosher :p

  9. VoijaRisa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2002
    star 5
    all the meat you eat IS *very* unsanitary

    Cook it properly and you're good. And so is it.
  10. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    We live, we die, and humans just happen to be the ones at the top of the food chain. Yay for us, bad for the food."

    More like a web for there is no end to the chain as we too get eaten.
  11. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    I figure that I eat meat only one day in three, but I have nothing against eating burgers or steaks. I do recognize that reducing meat intake is good the environment though.
  12. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    More like a web for there is no end to the chain as we too get eaten.


    King: Now, Hamlet, where's Polonius?

    Hamlet: At supper.

    King: At supper? Where?

    Hamlet: Not where he eats, but where he is eaten. A certain convocation of politic worms are e'en at him. Your worm is your only emperor for diet. We fat all creatures else to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots. Your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable service- two dishes, but to one table. That's the end.

    King: Alas, alas!

    Hamlet: A man may fish with the worm that hath eat of a king, and eat of the fish that hath fed of that worm.

    King: What dost thou mean by this?

    Hamlet: Nothing but to show you how a king may go a progress through the guts of a beggar.

    -Hamlet, act IV, scene iii, Shakespeare
  13. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Being a vegetarian for moral reasons is hypocrisy. Most vegetarians of that type claim that animals are living things and we have no right to kill them for food. And yet, the plants they eat every day are just as alive as any animal, which proves that they're hypocrits.

    Now, I can understand vegetarianism for health or taste reasons, but that's a different story.
  14. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    Somehow I don't think a carrot minds if I eat it.

    Compared to like a fish that struggles for his very life as you pull it out of the water, then you bonk him over the head and slit him open and gut him, and fry him up.

    Sorry I see a big difference.

    Thats why if I had to kill my own food, I would become a vegetarian pretty quick. Not a fan of personally killing my own food, before I eat it.

    I can go with or without meat.

    But I must say I like a nice plate of steak and lobster at least once a year, Mmmmmmmmm good.
  15. darth_paul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    Being a vegetarian for moral reasons is hypocrisy. Most vegetarians of that type claim that animals are living things and we have no right to kill them for food. And yet, the plants they eat every day are just as alive as any animal, which proves that they're hypocrits.
    I can't tell if you're being facetious, but in case you're not, there definitely are valid moral considerations. It's a question of what one values. Having no particular concern for keeping bacteria or individual cells alive, I value consciousness instead of life. Plants, incapable of thought or consciousness, are not particularly high on my list of things to protect. Animals, displaying consciousness and independent thought, come higher up the list.

    I am not a vegetarian. I admire those who are for their self-discipline. When I really give particular thought to the slaughter and consumption of animals as meat, I find it disturbing, but I do not often give it that sort of thought, because I like meat and have decided that it's not something I'm ready to change.

    I'm not too morally bothered by this decision. Consciousness/intelligence/thought, like pretty much everything else in life (I've realized), makes a continuum. Carrying through a desire to protect conscious life would require us to protect all thinking forms of life including insects (aren't those the Jainists or something?). And then we get to plants and small organisms which react to their surroundings -- is this consciousness? Can they feel? We're so brain-centric, but I'm not sure other types of reactions can necessarily be dismissed as consciousness. (Yes, I know I argued against this earlier. I can certainly see it both ways. At any rate, it's natural to value animals more since they exhibit a consciousness of a more familiar type.) Unless we want to leave ourselves powerless to destroy a living cell, it's necessary to choose somewhere to draw a line. For a variety of reasons, the species division is an expedient place -- humans == not okay for killing, non-humans == okay for killing. There are moral pitfalls there, but there would be moral pitfalls at any position, and I think it's a fairly reasonable one.

    -Paul
  16. Jabba_on_a_unicycle Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2005
    star 2
    I admire vegetarians, but i dont think its right, as we are naturally omnivores. We have caine teeth and our eyes at the front. Our body system is also designed to eat meat. I think everyone should eat less and we should only eat meat when animals are treated with respect (no mass farming or live imports).

    I have heard of people who were strict vegans who forced their pets to eat only vegetables which i found sickening!!!
  17. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    Somehow I don't think a carrot minds if I eat it.

    And somehow I don't think a person in a coma would mind if we...

    The problem with not eating meat for moral reasons is that you are (or wherever you are getting the morals from is) arbitrarily picking a point where this killing is right and this killing is wrong. And there is no reason why you would be more right than someone else who picks a different point. You can draw the line anywhere, and it is no more right than where someone else draws it.

    Your values fall under the same logic too, they are just as 'pick and choose' as where you draw the line.
  18. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    1000 post

    Carrot Vs Human big difference.

    And thats a fact I think most people will agree too.

    That explanation does not help the issue.

  19. AnakinsGirl Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2001
    star 4
    mad cow disease is resistent to extremely high temperatures, from freezing, and other conditions usually capable of killing other harmful, less resilient diseases.
  20. DarthBreezy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2002
    star 6
    I haven't eaten 'meat' for over 7 years.

    I object to how commercial meat is transported and harvested, i.e. the 'electric chicken line', the 'captive bolt', factory farming. Hell, the only eggs that enter this house are 'cage free-veg fed-non steriods' type. I eat a lot of TVP, beans, and occasionally fish (hey, they eat their own and at least have a fighting chance! :p )

    I miss spare ribs on the BBQ, cold fried chicken (especially from safeway) and Dick's super delux burgers, but none for me thanks...
  21. son_of_the_tear Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 5
    DB, if all those things worry you buy you actually like meat... may I recommend eating kosher?

    Not saying kosher as in following the diet. Just in the products themseleves.

    Hell, I don't follow the diet and I'm jewish. I happen to think bacon is the greatest invention of all time :p

    But kosher meats and kosher chickens are very sanitary and humanitarian. The animals cannot suffer nor be in deplorable conditions. The cleaning process. And killed in a way in which is not degrading and the animal recieves the least amount of pain possible.

    That's the only reason I eat kosher meats.
  22. Dionysus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2001
    star 1
    Interesting posts, all around.

    My reason for being a vegetarian is a simple one: it's not necessary for me to eat animals, so why should I?

    Granted, even as a vegetarian, I must kill plants for food. Moreoever, whenever land is cleared to make way for the crops that I will eventually eat, that clearing destroys animals' habitats, and causes some of them to die.

    In short, it isn't possible to survive and not harm or kill other organisms.

    But it is possible to reduce the level of harm that I inflict. As others have mentioned, mass-produced meat is both unsanitary and inhumane. (I am not talking about your local family farmer; I'm talking about giant corporate farms that are run by people who have never set foot on a farm.)

    If I buy mass-produced meat, then by supporting the factory farms that keep these animals in awful conditions and slaughter them inhumanely, I feel I am harming those animals unnecessarily. I can survive just fine on plant-based foods. There is absolutely no reason for me to eat meat, other than the fact that it is tasty.

    And that's what it comes down to, a simple equation. Which do you value more highly: your own gustatory pleasure, or reducing the suffering of other organisms?

    Most of you value pleasure more highly, and that is your perogative. I'm not here to change your mind. I can't stand 'evangelical' vegetarians who verbally assault meat-eaters with their unsolicited opinions.

    But it is useful to ask yourself whether you could stomach killing the animals that you eat. If the answer is no, then it might be worthwhile to ask whether giving up meat would really be that difficult.

    My experience is that it's actually quite easy.
  23. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    But it is possible to reduce the level of harm that I inflict. As others have mentioned, mass-produced meat is both unsanitary and inhumane.

    It's funny how we have to be humane to non-humans. Not say that you're wrong per say, just saying that I still get a chuckle over the idea.

    Animals are people too!
  24. Dionysus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2001
    star 1
    ^^

    Good point. A better word is in order, but it doesn't come to mind. My actual opinion is that animals are superior to humans in most respects, but that's a topic for another thread...
  25. Green_Jedi33 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2004
    star 3
    I would kill a cow for a whopper. [face_cow]

    I would kill a crab (although the pincers would scare me a little) and a chicken for some chicken oscar with bearnaise sauce. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM [face_chicken]

    No hesitation on the pig for ham and bacon! [face_pig]

    I wouldn't kill a cat or dog, neither would I eat one.

    I would kill a deer, moose, or elk and eat and make use of its remains.

    The only thing I HAVE killed is a fish, to eat.

    ...and a frog, but that was childhood cruelty that I regret down to this day. :(

    But I think it's terrible for any and all to do this to a ..... [face_pumpkin]


    EDIT:

    My actual opinion is that animals are superior to humans in most respects

    Okay then.
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