Vehicle swapping

Forgive me if this has already been discussed. I notice that the Jedi Starfighters have the "Tie Fighter" look to them and the Clone Troopers have the X-Wing style ships. Anyone have any ideas how this gets switched to what we see in the OT, with the rebellion having X-Wing figters and the Empire using the Tie Fighter design?

Just one of the MANY things still unclear to me.

 

When the Republic was reorganized into an Empire, the designs of the ships would've been ported over as well. Hence the resemblance between the Jedi Interceptor and the TIE Fighter.

This is just a guess, but I always thought that the Rebellion simply used whatever ships they had at hand, regardless of where they came from previously. Its not like the Rebellion had a lot of money.
They dont just use X-Wings, but Y-Wings and A-Wings(?) as well. There probably isnt any connection between the ARC-170s and the X-Wings.

 

It's just assumed that the Rebels picked up this technology from the Empire like everything else they had. Maybe even built a few of their own as well.

 

Empire has a very large starfighter force. They buy cheap, good fighters, ie TIE fighters.

Rebels need good fighters that can use hyper drives so they can escape and make quick attacks. These are more expensive, ie X-wings, Y Wings, B Wings, A wings.

 

I know I'm going to get this wrong, but the EU story is that the manufacturers of both designs of ship, the TIE heritage and the X-Wing heritage, both worked for the Republic. Sienar Fleet Systems, the designers of the Jedi fighters and then the TIE Fighters, remained with the empire, but Incom, designers of the ARC-170 and in the future the X-Wing, defected to the rebellion (or had key members deliver blueprints to the rebellion, something like that).

In an interesting side note, many of the capital ships of the Confederacy were supposedly designed by the Quarren. Quarren are from the same planet as the Mon Calamari, who designed the Alliance ships seen near the end of Return of the Jedi. The ships are quite similar in design.

 

the Jedi starfighter in ROTS i think is more a predessor to Vader's TIE fighter and not a normal TIE fighter

though the V-Wing shown in the Trailer (escorting the shuttle) and at the end of the ROTS are the predessor to normal TIE fighter

IMHO

 

Yeah I agree. The sounds of those V-Wings at the end of ROTS are almost exact with the regular TIEs.

 

Rebels get/steal/build on old technology, the tie fighters were the new technology, the x-wings were old...out dated.

 

If you want to be precise, the TIE Fighter is essentially an amalgamation of the V-Wing and Jedi fighter. Take a good look at the V-Wing and you'll see that it really has little to compare it to a TIE Fighter, with the exception of the way it looks from the back and its sound. The Jedi fighter makes an identical sound, has a similar hexagonal shape to its wings, and the same cockpit as a TIE Fighter. The V-Wing has much more to compare it to the Episode II Jedi fighter rather than a TIE Fighter.

[image=http://www.maj.com/gallery/R4P17DC/fbtbprofilework/rotsv-wing.jpg]

When you think of it, the V-Wing is rather superfluous to the film. My guess is it was designed purely for those (fantastic) shots with Palpatine's shuttle being guarded by two fighters; in an attempt to even further link the film to Return of the Jedi.

 

This is a fine PT Forum thread methinks.

 

I've stated my belief before in a similar thread, but I think it makes more sense than the "official line":

The Rebellion is an illegal insurgency in the Empire. The Alliance therefor doesn't make anything itself, but rather uses stolen and captured equipment. On the rare case that they could make something themselves, it would be from surplus Imperial parts and made following Imperial designs. Ergo all the Rebel ships and equipment are Imperial. It is just like in the real world. Groups like the Taliban used old captured and abandoned Soviet tanks and anything they could by on the black market. The design of the AK-47 rifle is also Soviet, thought the gun is produced in almost every industrial nation in the world. So I see the Rebel Alliance using the same model. Some of their equipment is antiquated Imperial stuff (i.e. the Y-wing is usually thought to be old) while others are captured current Imperial stuff (A-wing, X-wing; we even know they stole the Lamda Shuttle in Return of the Jedi). That we don't see the Imperials using this stuff is because we only see their ship launched fighters (ties) not their long-range (self-contained hyperdrive) vessels, as they had no reason to use them in the films. The rebels are always moving their bases, so they can't use short range stuff.

 

Incom (designers of ARC-170, X-Wing) defected to the Rebels, taking the plans for the X-Wing with them. This is why there are no Imperial X-Wings.

 

You have to remember, though, that the rebellion is more than just a small guerilla uprising. If you take the deleted information from RotS as canon, there exist nearly a thousand systems opposed to Palpatine's rule, certainly more than enough to fund and produce weapons for the Rebellion. And while its numbers may be small, it has the support of some very powerful individuals; Tarkin mentions the gaining popularity of the rebellion in the senate.

You'll notice that the ships often have the colors of the Old Republic painted on them, the gray and red. Well, there are two possible interpretations of this. First of all, they could be taken from the period of the Old Republic. As we see in Revenge of the Sith, Republic grays and reds turn to Empire grays quite quickly. Not a bad theory, but consider that the X-Wing is supposed to be the descendant of the ARC-170, a ship that existed at the very end the republic. This leads into our other theory- that the ships are being actively produced during this time, and painted in the colors of the old Republic, in the spirit of the time before the empire.

Of course, the ships could be repainted, but judging by the wear and tear, it seems like these ships have received a good lot of use since their last paint job.

If we do accept that these ships are stolen Imperial tech, then that undermines the idea of the Empire putting its strength in brute force and numbers, which the rebellion's strength lies in the power of the individual and respect for human life. Look at the design of the TIE Fighter as opposed to the X-Wing. Regardless of any EU material, we can tell that the thing is a piece of mass-produced junk. It doesn't even have life support, as is evidenced by the flightsuit that the pilot has to wear. It's basically two lasers mounted on a space pod. But who cares if they'll be destroyed quickly, if the pilots are just clones? The X-Wing, though, has life-support, and just looks and feels like a much sturdier piece of technology than the TIE Fighter. It has an astrodroid to repair things when things go wrong. The rebellion adopts tech which will save its people, because, when it comes down to it, isn't the rebellion about saving people? (Also the rebellion has far fewer pilots, of course.)

Of course, this discussion is venturing into extremely abstract territory, but I think that's what makes it interesting. I absolutely agree that the ships we see in the OT are modified Imperial tech, but the manner and timing of the split is somewhat up for discussion. I find this design stuff fascinating, and would be glad to continue discussing it, but I think the EU authors have more or less gotten the background for all of this

 

I know this is the official line; I just think it lacks common sense. If some EU corporation "defected" the Emperor would just send a couple of Star Destroyers to destroy their factories. You can't just quickly move and hide a factory. It would be much easier for Rebel systems to just despatch whatever Republican/Imperial ships they had on hand to a secret base. Others would be cut-out and stolen by the rebels. Maybe they could raid Imperial arsenals and supply yards to get parts, components and even a few working ships. They might even be able to build things with surplus parts, but this would always follow existing (Imperial) designs. I also think this possibility is much sexier than the official line, as this is how real insurgencies and rebellions work.

 

Ah, but typically, real insurgencies don't involve lasers, spaceships, and faster-than-light travel.

 

True, yet insurgencies have worked this way from the bronze age to the present, so whether sticks and stones or tanks, MiGs and AK-47s, there hasn't been much difference, so I don't see why Starfighters and blasters would be any different. It is simply a case of necessity being the mother of invention: you can make homemade traps and furtilizer bombs, but for the tech-heavy stuff you need to steal from the big boyz.

 

Fair enough, I think this is just a matter of differing views.

 

I think we're neglecting an important part of the official statement on why the Imps don't use X-wings. Of course Incom did sympathize with the Rebellion, but the Imperials like conformity. From Star Wars Incredible Cross Sections:

Also, I read somewhere that they are not equipped with hyperdrives so the pilots can't run away easily.

 

X-Wings are also more expensive (hyperdrive, deflector shields, proton torpedo tubes, etc.) and less reliable (remember Jek Porkins?). The Empire used the TIEs in swarm tactics, so quantity over quality made sense. Sinear Systems was also a big suck-up to the Empire, so they tended to have more Sinear ships than others, though Kuat Drive Yards was an Imperial subsidy as well.