Vietnam, a "class war"? (Friendly debate)

Okay, as I was doing my project, I came across this topic: Vietnam Revised: Toppling Myths About The War. Well, we have some professer in Massachusetts that says Vietnam wasn't a class war. Well, I for one think that is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard and my teacher although not saying those same words agreed with me that this so-called professer is dead wrong. Here is his quote:

After examining hundreds of records, he concluded that combat deaths were fairly evenly distributed across all income levels in the U.S.

Well, Arnie Barnett, I think you are full of BS! The way I see it, and my teacher agreed, is when will you ever see a Bill Gates type person in the battle field? How about never. Even if they do join, they get a desk job and are so far away from the action, that their biggest battle is when they are on the tolet takeing a dump. The day I see as many Bill Gates type people on the battle field as the poor and middle class is the day I will agree with this statement, for future wars if it happens with a few thousands billionares and millionares in the battle field, but not for the Vietnam War, never. Secondly, this Arnie Barnett only went over a few hundred records, well ladies and gentlemen, there were 58,000 plus combat deaths in Vietnam, not just a few hundred! Also, he could have "selected" his files for research, meaning he only picked the ones that supported his views. And, if his statement is true, then there should of been about 27 THOUSAND comabt deaths for the rich and uper middle class people. Hell, I saw no 27 thousand Bill Gates type people in body bags! I saw poor and lower and mid middle class people!

What are your views on this? Please don't bash other RMFF members and or other JC members, but feel free to reply with what you think, not what other people want to hear.

 

One of the things I have recently discovered is that people are full of crap. Professors especially. All they want to do is pass their opinions off as fact.

I don't know enough about class and vietnam to really comment on this one, but I do have a little bit I would like to add that is not really that relevent. And it has to do with Jane Fonda. She is evil. She may be a really good actress, but she is not a good person at all. Many many people in vietnam died because of her. She travelled through the POW camps in N. Vietnam. Many of the soldiers there were MIA, so as she shook their hands they all slipped a little piece of paper into her hands with their social security # and their names. If she turned that in to the US gov, they could have possibly been rescued. But instead she turned to the comandant of the camp and while the prisoners were watching she handed all the papers to the enemy. Several prisoners died because of the resulting beatings.

She's not a good person in my opinion.

 

Yu are wise beyond yur years, JGoC.......where do yu think they got the line, "Opinions are like @$$holes, everyone's got one!"?

 

LOL! Great saying there! I'm gonna hafta use it some time

 

I'll never forgive Fonda for the way she back-stabbed those poor bastards in Vietnam.....look up two-faced in the dictionary, and yu'll find Fonda's face.


And BRAVO, about seein' celebs in combat....the only time yu see that is when a truly honourable soul sets aside their own for the sake of others and/or the mission. Case in point is the NFL player who turned down a multi-million dollar sign-on bonus to go into the service.....that just happened about a month ago.....wish I could recall his name. Talk about puttin' yur money where yur mouth is!

 

People who do that, like the one you said, are the people I really have respect for. They turn down the money for their country. I wish more people would do that, I mean the rich ones. If the politicans did that, hell, we might have the government our forefathers dreamed of.

 

BTW-Just so you guys know, that thing about Fonda is an Urban Legend. I've even talked to the guy who is credited w/ the original presentation of that story. The whole thing is a fabrication by a student at the university he was teaching at and they used his name as a means of adding credibility to their claims.

Now, I'm not defending her, because she did some really stupid things and some hurtful ones as well. But let's stick w/ the facts on this one. That story gets brought back almost every six months like clockwork, like everyone forgot that it was a hoax that quickly. Yes, she went to Vietnam, yes she called all of our soldiers monstrous murderers, yes she participated in the NVA Propaganda Machine, and she was supposedly shown a POW camp, but there is not only no proof that was in one of those camps, but there is documentation in the Archives that she was never witnessed near any actual camps or bases for that matter. She was shown men in a parade ground and at military hospital (all NVA). She was good for propaganda, but let's face it, the NVA weren't stupid enought to her and her camera crew into anything important, she was still an American (albeit a bad one).

If you really want to blame someone or something for the POW's & known MIA's, maybe you should look no further than your own government. Nixon was so busy trying to open up relations w/ China, that he knew if he allowed the military to proceed w/ their attempts to rescue these men (and the few women, yes there were a few) that he would have too much information on China's involvement in the war to be able to continue his negotiations w/ them. Once again proving, that the best way to determine the outcome of any situation is to follow the money. American business wanted a serious crack a market consisting of a couple billion Chinese.

See that's what you get for having a history major around. Lecture over. . .

 

Oh, and as far as a class war, all you have to do is look at the dispensation provided to those attending college. You were exempt from the draft for attending college, so suddenly, anyone w/ enough money was enrolled in college. Some got in only because of generous contributions to the campus itself. There was a building boom on college campuses across the country in the late sixties and early seventies. And if you think I'm kidding, visit a college campus and look for the number of buildings built during that time period. The architecture alone is a dead giveaway.

 

Are there any MIA's or POW's still in Vietnam? I think so, maybe most of them passed away, but I think there are still a few left. What are the chances of an MIA or an POW still alive in Vietnam, China, and or any other supporter of communistism?

 

The recent activities of people like Sen. McCain would lead you to believe that there are no more living MIA/POW's left in Vietnam. However, the truth will never fully come out, as long as the current govt. stays in power. And even then, I imagine the records would have been destroyed. Their remains will never be recovered, even if the jungle hadn't already destroyed them.

The fact of the matter is, that we will never have a resolution to the Vietnam question.

In 25 years, when all of the records are de-classified, we will still be looking for answers that simply do not exist. It was a terrible period in history and it was based on an already dying philosophy, that we had to stop the spread of communism.

Communism was never going to survive, even Marx knew that, and said it as well. It simply went against human nature, for competition, for aquisition, for ambition and for value of life. The whole concept of "For the greater good," is simply a platitude that every can aspire to, and almost no one can attain. The accomplishment is in the journey and not the act itself. We strive to be better than we are, and that is where communism was doomed for failure, because it said "you" were not as important as "we." Show me one communistic society that has survived on communism alone. Even China has slowly been chipping away it's communistic tendencies, to become the totalitarian capitalistic government it is today.

EDIT: Man, ask a simple question, and get a diatribe about the evils of global politics. I really need to get out more.

 

Yes, let me clarify....the urban legend was just that, but everything else she did actually by law put her right up there with Nixon. By the way....I have friends who were POW's in Vietnam, and their captive lives were made worse by Fonda's actions as her vocal ridicules were shoved down their throats as they were beaten.

 

Oh, I totally agree that what she did do was awful, but that stupid hoax does nothing but stir up trouble. Her actions during that war were unforgivable, which is why the only thing I've seen her do since I first learned of was On Golden Pond, & I always fast forward past the parts w/ her in it (Kathryn Hepbrun & Henry Fonda are two of my favorites). The worst crime she perpetrated was to be involved w/ the movie "Coming Home." One of the primary reasons these guys had such a hard time being accepted by the general public was that woman. So, I have no respect for her whatsoever. But I've based it on the facts and not this idiotic hoax.

 

Yea, but if anyone ever deserved to have such a hoax, it's that hag.

 

I haven't seen any Kathryn Hepburn flicks, but Audrey Hepburn is a total hottie...er...was.

 

"Opinions are like @$$holes, everyone's got one!"?

...and they all stink.