Saga Viewing order

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Oberst Hans Landa, Feb 24, 2014.

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Viewing order

Poll closed Jun 24, 2014.
First OT, then PT 15 vote(s) 40.5%
First PT, then OT 22 vote(s) 59.5%
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  1. Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2014
    star 2
    If you guys were to show the Star Wars saga to someone who's never seen them before, would you stick to the OT then PT order or do you think it'd be better if they saw the PT first and then the OT?
  2. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    That really depends on what your intent is.
  3. Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2014
    star 2
    Just showing someone what a fun ride Star Wars is.
  4. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    In that case I'd say 1-6. Personally, if it were me, I'd take a more serious line and start with OT then PT.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  5. Amiga_500_User Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2014
    star 1
    Definitely show them the OT first. Not only is it far superior in every aspect but it also has this mind-blowing Vader-Luke reveal in EMPIRE that is rendered completely pointless if you watch the PT first.
    That said, I wouldn't show the PT at all. It is godawful, imho, and it destroys so much that is great about STAR WARS in the first place.
  6. The Star Wars Archivist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2013
    star 3
    And the prequel hating continues. Why don't you offer a proper argument as to why they're god awful and the OT is the best thing your eyes have ever in your life looked upon since your birth?
  7. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
  8. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    Chronologically I-VI. It's Lucas' stated preferred order and the only way to really appreciate the whole story of the Saga as a continuous story with a beginning, middle, and (eventual) end.

    Also, people really need to give up trying to preserve a revelation/plot surprise that was only important when the Saga only consisted of 3 installments. The moment Lucas decided to go ahead with the Prequels, the 'surprise' of Vader being Anakin Skywalker ceased to matter.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Feb 24, 2014
  9. JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2013
    star 1
    PT and then OT. Not to mention with the new trilogy coming around, you're just going to be going the confusing route doing it any other way. Much simpler to go I-IX when that time comes.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  10. Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2014
    star 2
    But isn't Vader's big reveal important? Would you really deprive a new SW fan of the shock we enjoyed when we first found out the bad guy in the suit was our heroe's dad?
    Sarge and CaptainHamYoyo like this.
  11. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3

    No. The 'shock value' has no intrinsic value within the context of the story. The audience knowing that Anakin and Vader are the same person in no way lessens the impact that the revelation has on Luke or the way the story plays out following that revelation.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Feb 24, 2014
  12. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    Part of the problem with that reveal, for me, is that it has so infused popular culture that it isn't as original or shocking as it was in 1980. I mean, you have blatant copycats like Christopher Paolini, of course. But then there's always similar twists that exist in media such as Avatar: The Last Airbender's revelation that Zuko was related to Roku (or the paternity issue in the comics).

    I mean, just look at how many examples are listed here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LukeIAmYourFather

    And that's just for parent-child relationships. When you get into other reveals, it's even more common.

    That, and, although the reveal is interesting, it doesn't fundamentally change who any of the characters are. What I mean is, imagine that you find out you are actually Charles Manson's child. Does anything about you really change? Not really, you're still the same person you were and Charles Manson is still the same criminal he is, but now you have a connection to him. This might change how you treat him in the future, but you, as a person, aren't altered based on your parentage (a factor you can't control).

    I may be biased here (considering I started with the PT movies) but I think Anakin's turn is more shocking. Heck, just Anakin being set on fire and entombed in the suit is more shocking. And the twist of the PT is related to Anakin's choices (the terrible choices that he makes) rather than something he can't help, like who his father is. I don't know why people seem to forget this -- that, if you start with the PT -- you are presented with a bunch of new twists and turns.

    Now, when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Anakin was murdered by Vader, we know. And that creates tension, of wondering if Luke is every going to find out. When Luke rushes off to fight him in Cloud City, we're not only concerned that Luke could be killed/captured but that he might kill his own father while ignorant of the man's identity.

    Moreover, I think with the release of the sequel trilogy, it becomes far too cumbersome to try to watch the films in release order. You start with Luke, go back to his father, and then jump ahead to Luke again. Sure, you might get to see the proper progression of the special effects, but I don't think many people became Star Wars fans because of the effects. They're great, no doubt about it, but what most people love is the story, the world, the characters, the myth, the themes, the symbolism.

    I think Lucas designed the prequels so that they could be viewed before the OT without any problem. A lot of people say you must start with ANH, but I don't agree -- I started with TPM and I didn't encounter any huge issues. When you compare the PT to, say, The Hobbit, you'll see what I mean. The Hobbit films are premised upon the viewer already having seen LOTR -- they give away the fact that Biblo survives the journey in the opening few minutes although this isn't the case in the book. Similarly they include Frodo in the opening scene without any real context simply because he's an important player in LOTR. They don't really set anything up for later films with him either. I'd say the PT, though, in general lends itself very well to being watched first.

    But I think this question is kind of moot. Why don't you just ask the person you're showing the films to what they would prefer -- release order or chronological order? Even kids will understand if you say that the OT is Luke's story that was made first and then Lucas decided to go back and tell his father's history.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Feb 24, 2014
  13. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2013
    star 3
    I've always been into numerical "continuity" I guess. Like everyone I watched the films in production order (this was at a time that AOTC & ROTS weren't made yet), and something was missing. While I enjoyed the OT and TPM, it wasn't until ATOC came out that I decided to have a break from the series and wait for ROTS to come on DVD. My interest sparked once they decided to show the series in chronligoical order on the telly, I missed the first four and only watched bits of TESB AND ROTJ. Once I bought them on DVD I decided to watch them in order, and was surprised at the coherent story taking place. I once was watching them again, this time at my sisters house, I had finished TPM and proceeded to ATOC. she came into the room decided to watch and it was her intent to watch all of them in one go. My only regret is that she missed out on Phantom. But she managed to follow the story and I think she thoroughly enjoyed by stating how lovely the whole ending was and drooling over Christensen and Hamill :rolleyes:. But yeah anyways, I think I'll show them 1-6, especially now with the ST, I think it might just be a bit to confusing go to different sections of the same story instead and following it in one coherent story, but again thats just me.
  14. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    I can understand some of the current reasoning behind watching the Saga in production order, but as it continues to expand, viewing them in chronological order becomes more and more important, to the point where, eventually, viewing the films in production order is going to be like trying to read Harry Potter or The Lord of the Rings out of their intended chronological order: you could do it, but you'd be ignoring the structure of the overall story.
  15. Alienware Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2013
    star 1
    When we as a family watched the saga on blu-ray last year, I made a suggestion that we should watch them in release order and everyone agreed. Even my mother liked it :). I still see the story as a chronological one, but I just personally feel that it works better as a viewing experience when it's being watched in release order.

    All that will probably change when we'll have the sequel trilogy though.
    Last edited by Alienware, Feb 24, 2014
    Oberst Hans Landa likes this.
  16. sharkymcshark Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2

    While I'm a production order kind of guy I largely agree re Vader's reveal. It's still shocking, but without the cultural context of the time (he was THE baddie of the era) it can't reproduce the almost epochal effect the reveal had. At the time he was basically the cinematic Osama bin Laden - everyone knew who he was, everyone loved to hate him.

    But then I saw the films from such a young age that I can't even remember not knowing Darth was Luke's father.

    My viewing order preference is the Machete Order, but as that isn't listed I've gone for OT then PT.
    Last edited by sharkymcshark, Feb 24, 2014
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    This is what Lucas has to say on the subject.

    "It'll be a very different experience, because when Darth Vader walks into that spaceship with the princess, they're going to think, 'Oh my God, that's Anakin!' and they're gonna see Luke and think, 'Oh my God, that's his son!' And rather than a surprise when he says, 'I am your father,' it'll be like, 'Oh my God, finally he's told him!'"

    --George Lucas

    "If you see them in order it completely twists things about. A lot of the tricks of IV, V and VI no longer exist. The real struggle of the twins to save their father becomes apparent, whereas it didn't exist at all the first time [audiences saw Episodes IV, V and VI]. Now Darth Vader is a tragic character who's lost everything. He's basically a bitter old man in a suit.

    "I am your father" was a real shock. Now it's a real reward. Finally, the son knows what we already know.

    Its a really different suspense structure. Part of the fun for me was completely flipping upside down the dramatic track of the original movies. If you watch them the way it was released, IV, V, VI, I, II, III - you get one kind of movie. If you watch I through VI you get a completely different movie. One or two generations have seen it one way, and the next generations will see it in a completely different way.

    It's an extremely modern, almost interactive moviemaking. You take blocks and move them around, and you come out with different emotional states."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith.


    For a different point of view, here's a series of blogs about a father showing the Saga to his children for the first time. http://www.ign.com/blogs/m00nstrucknight/2011/11/19/dad-shows-kids-star-wars-for-first-time
  18. Darth Ardyti Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2014
    star 1
    As a rule, I usually watch them in episodic order, so I voted PT then OT. But I'm considering experimenting with TPM, ANH, AOTC, TESB, ROTS, ROTJ. I'm curious to see how that works out with treating TPM as a prologue, then AOTC and ROTS as flashback sequences.

    Keeping in mind that I say experimenting because I've never come across anyone talk about watching them this way. Usually it's PT then OT, OT then PT, or similar the the Machete Order.
    Last edited by Darth Darkstarr, Feb 24, 2014
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Read that blog. The father starts with ANH and TESB, then goes to the PT and then ROTJ.
  20. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Just watch Episode I six times.

    The saga in a nutshell.
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  21. Darth Ardyti Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2014
    star 1
    Yeah, I loved reading the kids' reactions. I think that could be a good way to view also. I'm talking more start with Phantom Menace as a kind of prologue to the story. Then "jump ahead" to New Hope. Luke, Leia, the Rebellion...etc. Next Clones as a flashback interlude, showing the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan that was mentioned in New Hope. Then Empire, still allowing for the Vader reveal. Follow with Sith to show how the fall happened, then Jedi as Anakin's Redemption/Fall of the Empire.

    Anyway, sorry for the side tangent. [face_blush]. Actually, for me this wasn't too bad. I actually managed to at least keep it relatively on topic :D.
  22. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I would do the publication order. ANH is the only way to start the Star Wars saga imo.
    See the story as it evolved and not force the OT into the confines of the PT.
    The evolution of Vader's story this way is more exciting.
    We see Vader as the fallen apprentice, and killed Luke's father, and then killed Obi-Wan. How did he get the suit?
    ESB-We learn he is the father but is he?
    ROTJ-He is the father and is redeemed.
    Then jump back in time to
    TPM-We learn who Anakin was and how he met Obi-Wan,
    AOTC-We see the beginning of how Anakin fell, and who the mother is,
    ROTS-We see the fall of the Jedi and the Republic, Anakin etc. We see him in the suit and the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Save the most important moments/answers for how the OT came to be for last.
    Sarge likes this.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'd just show the OT and not show the PT at all.

    Then I'd post about it on here so I could be accused of prequel-bashing.
  24. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I tend to prefer the PT first because I like that we get to meet each character without any preconceived notions of what they will become. I see this affect Anakin a lot (and Padmé, by extension) in that those who know he will become Darth Vader often see him in the worst possible light. Viewing something like the Tusken slaughter, for example, is definitely going to be different depending on whether or not you know that Anakin is going to become Darth Vader.

    For example, I think Padmé gets judged really harshly for still wanting to be with him but a lot of people don't consider the fact that she doesn't know he's going to become Darth Vader like they do. The Anakin she met might have been a bit whiny, but he saved her people, saved her life, and had dedicated himself to serving the Republic for the past ten years. What he did was terrible, but I think most people would agree that the circumstances were quite terrible as well.

    On the other hand, people fall over themselves praising the Han/Leia romance. Which is understandable given that they like both characters. But I don't see nearly as much criticism of Leia for getting with Han. Even though he can be quite callous and disrespectful. And he might have saved her and the Rebellion, but the guy also worked for a slaver for quite a while and never expresses a shred of guilt over it. It's not like it was a moment of desperation or of terrible trauma for Han the way it was for Anakin, and yet Leia completely excuses this aspect of his past without any criticism from the fan base.

    And I'm not saying she deserves criticism for it. Han has many positive qualities. But I think it's a real double-standard that people have when they criticize Padmé for standing by a guy who had done a lot of good but snapped in what was clearly a horrifically traumatizing moment.
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  25. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Oh, god, not this again...

    Let's keep this on-topic.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Feb 24, 2014
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