Vision of the Future question

Does anyone know the page number or general area of the section where Parck tells Mara about the Yuuzhan Vong (or at least what would become them)? I have the hardcover if that makes any differences.

 

Chapter 27 (pg 421). Warning: This is for the Aus paperback. But judging by the butchered American spelling, they didn't really alter the text.

 

I think Stent said more than Parck did on it.

And didn't Jag Fel say in Ruin that the Chiss knew nothing of the Yuuzhan Vong and they weren't the threat Stent had warned Mara of?

 

Doesn't Outbound Flight pretty much prove that it was?

 

Yeah, and Formbi claims the Killiks were responsible for the Chiss regime change - even though not much more than a year would have passed between Raynar's arrival after SBS (about the time of Soontir and Jag's chat in DJ) and Luke et al's visit to Csilla in Refugee. Those Chiss are a bunch of liars.

Or perhaps the Empire of the Hand had its own reasons for protecting Mara Jade, and/or Luke Skywalker - by downplaying the "mistake" (from the POV of the New Republic) of not immediately passing along to the NR the warning of the danger...

 

It was that farce Dark Journey that said the Chiss knew little of the Vong, the firts time we saw that official.

 

It can all be easily explained with Jagged Fel being a clone with altered memory

 

Survivor's Quest also hinted pretty strongly in a few of Formbi's scenes.

 

it's the point that Zhan clearly has retconned his work to being the Yuuzhan Vong as a threat (and states upfront that they were in interviews) while Elaine Cunningham made it someone else.

 

Although Stent does mention "hundreds of different threats out there", and we've only got confirmation of two of those. Zahn seems to have covered his bases well, at least.

 

It's clear that the threat wasn't initially intended to be the Yuuzhan Vong, as Zahn, Stackpole, and Randy Stradley had their own plans from the Unknown Regions back in 1998. Even after the NJO began, Stackpole wrote in Ruin that the Unknown Regions were full of terrors that weren't the Yuuzhan Vong. Also, keep in mind the quote somewhere in The Joiner King, where Luke reflects that he's worried about Jacen & Jaina being in the Unknown Regions because it's home to a thousand terrors.

So why did Zahn retcon this? Especially considering that he's hinted before that he's not a very big fan of the NJO? A war against the terrors of the Unknown Regions could still be a feasible plot device in the future. Even with Zahn's retcon, can we take Luke's reflection in The Joiner King to mean that there are still other terrors lurking out there? There's no way that the Yuuzhan Vong can count as being the vast number of species that Parck and Baron Fel mentioned in Vision of the Future. Despite Zahn's retcon, I still say that there are terrors out there.

Were there really hints in Survivor's Quest that the terrors were the Vong? I always took the introduction of the Vagaari to be a reminder from Zahn to the reader that there were unknown terrors lurking in the Unknown Regions. Then again, I haven't yet read Outbound Flight, and I know that there's more on the Vagaari there.

 

Even in Outbound Flight I'm sure Thrawn mentioned that the Unknown Regions was not a safe place to be. I think that there were a hundred different threats, but because of the NJO, the Yuuzhan Vong were top of the list, as it were, of the threats.

 

I believe Timothy Zhan stated along the lines that he'd originally been approached regarding the Yuuzhan Vong and that he believed they were in part named after him. He furthermore indicated that the plot idea of the Vong was his (i.e. force from without invades). While he didn't like the concept or execution of the enemy as they were, he also felt it would be anti-climatic to have Thrawn worried about the Unknown Regions threats if something as gross as the Vong existed.

 

Ah, thanks for the info. But the Yuuzhan Vong definitely weren't named after Tim --- Insider 66 has this to say in the article Novel Approach:

I guess it's fair to say that Thrawn and the Empire of the Hand were worried about all of the threats in the Unknown Regions, chief among them the Vong.

It would be interesting to read about skirmishes the Vong had with some of those threats while lying in wait.

 

Well Tim doesn't have to be RIGHT ;-)

 

I figure people should be glad that Zahn was willing to make such a retcon. The fact he willingly tied in an idea of his own to an external plotline he didn't like goes to show how there is no "Zahnverse" bubble and how willing he is to relate to the other EU.

And there undeniable are other threats. The Vagaari, the Ssi-ruuvi, the Killiks, the Crokes, the warlord that Fel lost his eye to, the species the alien stormtrooper in SQ was enslaved to, and the warlord they fought against in Fools' Bargain are all Unknown Regions threats.

Actually, there is a hint in SQ that the Vagaari may be allied with the Vong. Formbi says that the Chiss don't know why the Vagaari have suddenly grown strong enough to attack the Chiss, and worries they've made an alliance with an even greater, unknown power (which due to both the in-universe and real-life timing of SQ, as well as the OBF revelation, make it likely to mean the Vong). And OBF undeniably has references to the Chiss fighting the Vong. Although I don't really believe it, after reading OBF I half-wondered if the Vagaari might actually BE the Vong.

 

I agree 100%.

That strengthens my convictions to read Fool's Bargain. Lousy hardcovers...

Hey, if a Yuuzhan Vong could disguise himself as a Ssi-Ruu, a couple of Vagaari shouldn't be a problem.

Actually, scratch that. A Vong couldn't imitate the harmonies they produce with their two mouths.

 

Hmm. Interesting. Never cought that idea, but it is definitely cool to think that the Vagaari were being helped by the Vong (maybe even Nom Anor? ).






As for the threats, wasn't the term "Far Outsuders" coined in HoT? If not I'm pretty sure there was at least some indication of an impending threat from outside known space, that is the number one threat of the "hundred terrors" so it all works very well. And Zahn using the Vong as the threat doesn't seem all that surprising. Although it may not have turned out as he planned, the idea of it was based of of what he had written. And the "Zahnverse" is a myth

 

I think Far Outsiders is originally from Rogue Planet.

 

And how anyone didn't see the obvious ending to the Vong after reading that boredom book is as perplexing as the underclassing of women in fantasy. I had to keep quiet so long not to spoil the . . . surprise. Kinda fun in a way.

 

Yes, Ex, we get it. You hate the entire EU except Dark Nest. Must you remind us in every post?

 

Selonian pelts I do. There's dozens of books I like, even more than like. Although I didn't like Like Like from Zelda. He could eat your big shield. Could be worse; on the 2ndQuest those amber bubbles could take your sword--damn the cretins--and it's not easy to get back. 15yrs later it still shudders me . . .

 

You like Dark Nest? Score! Excellence, I just realized that you and I are going to get along after all.

 

Where the hell have you been, ocarining time with Link on the Astral Plane? Joiner King is exemplar reading, and Swarm War a shade behind.

 

I was Link for Halloween. And Joiner King wasn't very good. And Ive never taken the Astral Plain anywhere.