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Discussion visual continuity

Discussion in 'Star Wars: New Films - No Spoilers Allowed' started by TheNewEmpire, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. TheNewEmpire

    TheNewEmpire Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2007
    I wonder is Abrams will continue on with the established visual continuity set up by Lucas.

    So will we get the crawl? Will the first shot consist of a star field, a pan down, and a starship?
    Will we get wipes, dissolves or shaky cam and lens flare? All of the above?

    Will the sequels be a fake-looking CGI fest again or will we see more models and practical sets?
    For me, the X-wings and Star Destroyers of the original trilogy still look more realistic than the prequel ships. There's just something about the weight and feel of a physical object moving though actual space being photographed that CGI still can't mimic.
     
  2. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    I think Kennedy and Lucasfilm hired Abrams with the understanding that he was to make a Star Wars film, meaning, a film that carries on the look and feel of it's predecessors. I think he got the job in part because he is fan, he knows what these movies should look like.

    I think it's a good fit. I don't think we're going to get an Abrams movie, I think he's going to give us a Star Wars movie.
     
  3. Jedi Gunny

    Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    May 20, 2008
    There will definitely be a mix of both practical and CGI. That's the SW feel, really.
     
  4. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    No, he was hired specifically to break away from anything resembling a Star Wars movie, to hire tween stars, add dance numbers, product placement, sweeping songs with a montage and... eh, I ran out of steam.
     
  5. darthtuttle

    darthtuttle Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2004
    i think there will be more scenes filmed on location and more of the dirty used feel from the original trilogy
     
  6. Legacy Jedi Endordude

    Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Ok first off I want so say I never thought any of the CGI in the Prequels for the ships looked fake at all.

    ^this

    ^and this
     
  7. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Great post! I think it sums it up.
     
    Poor Greedo likes this.
  8. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I hope to see both CGI and practical sets. Throw the OT up on a large projection screen and the ships like models against a flat background. I think the ships in ROTS looked better, from the outside anyways. I'd like the sets the actors interact with to be practical sets with CGI supplements though.

    I have no doubt that J.J. will do well with the visual effects.
     
    Echo-07 likes this.
  9. Loupgarou

    Loupgarou Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2010
    I really do wonder specifically about the wipes though; they're a bit of a holdover from the idea of star wars being an homage to old Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers serials, and though that's part of the Star Wars DNA, i found the wipes felt more and more out of place in the prequels. Perhaps they could happen a few times, at appropriate moments, but i remember finding them distracting in ROTS. Though since i find them perfect in ANH, maybe it just has to do with the tone of the films?
     
    Sarge likes this.
  10. Bravesteel

    Bravesteel Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I hope that the movie is so good that I don't even notice any of the above! But I'd say it will probably be a mix of it all.
     
  11. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    As much as it pains me to say, I'm expecting a large scale of CGI effects. A large portion of the film will be mostly actors in front of green screens. Abrams has proven to me to be an effective director of knowing when to use CGI and when to use practical effects, but Disney seems to be rather "hands-on" with SW, and Kennedy has lost my trust after her fiasco with JP///. I, unfortunately, foresee an amount of executive meddling here that will boot out a lot of the more "auteur" styled ideas that SW was founded on.
     
  12. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Please, no shaky cam, and for the love of all that's holy, don't put lens flares on light sabers!
     
  13. KenobiSkywalker

    KenobiSkywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    There were lens flares on lightsaber clashes in ROTS, but it wasn't over done like the new Star Trek films, IMO.
     
  14. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    That's actually not terribly far away from what Lucas did during the late 90's....
     
    Ice Jedi likes this.
  15. JediGirl_Angelina

    JediGirl_Angelina Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Kathy Kennedy hinted very specificly at CEII that they know how important it is for them to have balance between models, real sets and visual ffects per CGI, and that they don't want to alienate the audience with loads of green screen. I have faith.
     
  16. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    People are going to be too hypersensitive to enjoy these movies and it's going to bug the crap out of me when I read so-called reviews two years from now. There is no reason not to expect the films to utilize all the available and cutting-edge visual effects techniques, including stuff we haven't even seen yet. Not one STAR WARS film was without blue/green screen during production. Obviously what is expected is a well-crafted film that is both respectful of where the series has been and innovative. Expect 3D, expect WETA, expect digital doubles, expect to see people in cockpits of completely CGI ships, expect the look of the new Star Tours. Models/miniatures and actual sets are still used even when people assume everything is CGI, and the usage of CGI doesn't mean anything done was without skill, artistry, or performance. Don't expect Abrams to just be a director-for-hire with no input on story, set pieces, casting, creature design, plotting, or without using any of his trademarks.
     
    FRAGWAGON likes this.
  17. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    You mean they didn't shoot the actors into orbit for the cockpit shots?!
     
  18. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    I am expecting CGI much more in line with Star Trek than the prequels. There will be far more real life movie sets. The prequels went overboard with the CGI. I understand some things like the Coruscant skyline needs to be done with computers, but you don't need to do furniture, corridors, and sand.
     
  19. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    A lot of that has to do with logistics and determining what is more expensive or convenient. All that matters is if it looks real.
     
    FRAGWAGON likes this.
  20. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    There is another word fro always doing the most convenient thing: Laziness. Some of the very best scenes from the entire series are the ones from Tatooine, because they went to a real place and real location to film those scenes. And the interior of the Tantive IV looks much more real than the interior of the Droid Control Ship. Someone making a movie shouldn't be looking for the convenient easy way out... and I'll tell you this: it sure don't look real when Padme falls down a hill of red sand, then stands up and not one single grain is on her white outfit or skin.
     
  21. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    With Abrams, I am too. The prequels paled in comparison to OT. I'm not an OT purist, I still enjoy the prequels, but they just didn't have the same heart and soul to them that the originals had. I think a lot of it had to do with this:
    [​IMG]

    I mean, for one, compare the Clones to the Stormtroopers.

    2005:
    [​IMG]
    Everything in the above shot is fake. There's no set, there's no actors, there's no props, there's no costumes, there's no boom mic. Everything above, the entire 501st Legion was created on a computer. Not a single trooper you saw on screen in Ep.III (save for Commander Cody's brief shot where he was cameoed by Temuera Morrison) was real. Not a single prop DC-15 was crafted, not a single trooper helmet was molded. There was no heart, there was no flesh, there wasn't anything about it there that I fell in love with in the OT.


    Now, shift back to 1983:
    [​IMG]
    Everything in the shot is IN the shot. Every single crafted blaster, every single mold of Stormtrooper armor, everything from Chewwie's baking hot furry suit and the Rebel's riding boots, to the Sterling converted E-11 blasters and Han Solo's Mauser C96 converted into a DL-44. Everything there was THERE. That was the beauty behind it. The blood, sweat, tears, and resources that went into creating these complex costumes where every little detail mattered. Before Lucas was able to spam the prequels with CGI husks, he was able to use his ingenuity to turn 20 hired extras into the entire 501st Legion. Before he could digitally create an armada visually, he would use camera effects, instant replays, and even rearrange the set itself to turn one measly hallway of the Tantive IV into an entire spaceship battle. That was what being a director is supposed to be about: being able to work with what you have and making it work. I'm sorry if you guys feel differently about Star Wars now that Disney took it under their wing, but I just know Disney is going to follow the same formula as Lucas did in the prequels. The thing is, big CGI and big action is selling, and Disney has had a history of milking the cow long after the cow has died. They have a tenancy to keep reusing the same formula when the other studios have switched to something new. They see that so long as they can make some sort of profit, even if it's not what they expected, that it's okay.
    I don't mean for what I'm saying to be "anti-CGI", but there is a time and a place for everything. Creating actors out of CGI in instances where a hired extra would be perfectly fine is where CGI becomes superfluous and spammy. I mean, I can see creating alien characters like Jar Jar out of CGI, where it wouldn't look good in practical effects, but the entire clone army? Okay, for wide shots of the entire legion it'd be fine, but when you've got 5-10 guys in a shot, wouldn't it be a bit nice to craft some plastic guns and armor and hire 10 extras? That's where the heart is lost, where it becomes CGI spam. If you're going to make ALL of your effects CGI, then what's the point of calling them "special effects". There needs to be a good balance between CGI and practical effects, and the prequels didn't have it.

    I agree so so very much! CGI today is too smooth, too fluid, and too textured. In my opinion, the CGI in the PT suffers from the same fault that CGI has been suffering of through this entire century. It's too danged perfect. I feel like it's too clean and even often lacks the blurred effect that affects real life objects or having a blur effect when the real life object doesn't, causing inconsistency. It's almost as if they were attempting to use the best CGI they could, however this action causes the CGI to become too clear and noticeable
     
    TKT, dolphin, Sarge and 1 other person like this.
  22. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Amen. I remember seeing an interview where Lucas was bragging on the fact that they didn't make a single clone trooper costume or uniform and that it was all CGI. I remember thinking to myself "Why are you proud of that??!?"

    BTW, I think your post is the POST OF THE YEAR. And I am not just saying that because I agree with it 100%. :D
     
    Sarge likes this.
  23. dolphin

    dolphin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 1999
    We've seen JJ Abrams homages before and he's very good at making nods to originals/inspirations.

    • Super 8 is his version of E.T. You'll see major resemblances between the two.
    • Star Trek (2013) resembled one of the early Star Trek films (without giving anything away) right down to some of the lines.

    I think Episode VII will have the look and feel of ANH. I just hope he doesn't go overboard with the nods.
     
  24. dolphin

    dolphin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 1999



    Wouldn't it be refreshing if we find that JJ Abrams and crew are busy creating props and models like the old days? Trying to use as little CGI as possible?
     
  25. SkywalkerSquadron

    SkywalkerSquadron Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2013
    I hope some things stay the same, but I do want it to feel "fresh." I'm hoping we still see the opening crawl in space, "A long time ago in a GFFA," etc.
     
    Pax Sithus and Julius Vernon like this.