Visual FX and you!

Hey folks.

Was digging through old files today and came across the recently unavailable "Visual FX and you!" episode of old-podcast Geekza!, wherein Ryan_W and myself answer questions about the visual effects industry, from how to start, to how to assemble a reel, to how to get hired, and how to get hired again.

This is two years old now, so it's outdated for us personally (me especially), but still an excellent two-hour chunk of information for anyone considering doing visual effects for a living.

It's not for everybody (however, Down in Front certainly is) but for those who enjoy doing effects or are thinking about starting, have a listen when you find a couple of free hours.

 

definitely my favorite episode

 

This is so two years ago.

 

Fixed.


But yeah, this was by far my favorite episode as well. I've listened to it several times now.

 

Man, I really want to do VFX for a living, but the whole project jumping thing scares the crap out of me. Not having a stable job freaks me out.

I guess if you are good with finances, you can swing it, though.

 

There's not an "Editing and you!" around, is there?
Actually, I may have asked this 1.5 years ago. I think I listened to this back then, too. This has all happened before...

 

and
it
will
happen
again

(ther must some kind of way out of here...?)

 

If I may lend some advice...

This is the same thing that got to me when I first started, but there really wasn't anything else out there. To make it worse, one of the major employers had laid off most of their dedicated crews, so now there were TONS of fish in the pond. So what I did was take several part-time jobs with several different companies, from HVAC installer to home remodeling, to wood-floor installation. The bosses knew that whenever there was a job available I would need the time off to work it, and that I might not know till the day before or the morning of. They weren't all perfectly okay with it (and there were a couple low-profile jobs I did turn down to keep peace), but most of them understood. And I apparently had a better work ethic than anyone else they had ever hired, so they were just glad to have me.

And look at me now!

*Peter Pan stance*

 

Multiple part-time jobs doesn't sound like an appealing alternative. I just think the VFX industry is set up badly. They need to make it standardized like other industries. There should be no crunch times where people are sleeping in the studio, that's just bad time management, or rather, saying they can make unrealistic deadlines and then working insane hours under crazy conditions for it. Hollywood has a whole needs a complete overhaul of their business model in my opinion. The VFX industry in particular seems to be a whipping boy.

 

I'm horrible with finances, but I've managed to swing it for 10 years now. I'm not a VFX artist, but I am a freelance editor who does plenty of my own projects on the side.

It's not as horrible as it may seem, but it does certainly take some getting used to, and yes, it can make for some lean times if you get caught flat footed. There are a few things though that you can do to prevent or at least minimize those lean times.

1) Incorporate. My Screen name is nothing cute, I am the owner of Astroninja Studios, Inc. Population: me. This is my loan out Sub S Corp that I use when I take jobs. Therefore, instead of getting a paycheck from a client, I invoice them and they cut me a check with no taxes os SS taken out. From that my company does its own payroll to its employees (again, just me) and I get to deduct a lot more standard expenses and write it off as work expenses. Its a bit more work and yes having an accountant helps. But its what allows for my wife and I to get our health insurance as well as write off that SICKHurt Locker DVD as "research." It's farily common in my field. On the downside...no unemployment benefits. But...if you work long enough your company can carry a bit of liquid cash that you can use to keep your salary going while you search for the next gig.

2) In 2006 I went three months straight of no work. It sucked. THank god I had some money saved. But since then, I haven't gone that long without work since. The longest I have gone has been 4 weeks straight, just this last year. My point is, that once your career gets going and you start making good contacts and building your resume up, it gets progressively easier to find work. I have a rotation of companies that I go to throughout the year. Right now, I got work for about 3 more weeks, and then nothing. But, because of contacts I have made, I have leads on three different gigs right now. It's a little nerve racking, but it seems to work out.

3) Plenty of places offer "staff" positions for in house things. Especially larger media companies. Their salaries tend to be a little lower, but they also tend to offer benefits. These are not as common to find, but there are still plenty of places like that out there. A girl I know has been at Yahoo for 6 years straight now with no intention of leaving.

So those are just a few things that help minimize the struggle. I wouldn't change my career for anything. RIght now Im cutting a sizzle reel for a show about Tow-In Surfers that was shot on Red, P2, SOny ExCam, DVCPro, and 7D. I have a 4Tb drive here looking at amazing footage of Hawaii's North Shore. In a little while Im going to take this drive home, have a late lunch with my wife before she goes off to teach, then work at home until about 10 this evening, and upload my cut to my boss. Then I am going to play the F out of some Assasins Creed 2, wait for his notes in email, address those, and work through the night. I'll go in at noon tomorrow to review, and repeat the process. I love the freedom of it. And unlike a lot of other aspects of the entertainment industry, Post Production really is a meritocracy. If your work is good...you'll find work. Brown nosers and sycophants exist, but they don't last very long. I've worked hard at building my reputation and as long as I don't get lazy, finding work won't be too much of an issue.

 

Yes, please.
I've definitely been looking. Had one interview with a place like this, but no go.

 

Times are-a-changin'
"The church" is no longer an old stuffy place with an organ and hymnals... Ok there are still a lot of those out there. However there are also a lot of churches on the rise that are intent on being on the cutting edge in media. You may find the steady employment you are looking for in a church that is looking for a good media director.
I've been working at my church for almost 13 years now, the first 4 as a youth pastor and the rest as the graphic artist/video producer. I've had the opportunity to travel to Israel (twice) to document our church tour group, attend retreats for free so I can video tape and make fun and creative videos that not only entertain but also help enrich peoples lives. I've made some pretty crazy videos and I've learned a lot of fx and editing techniques along the way. I've done roto/painting, green screen, 3d, stopmotion, music videos, slideshows, rock concert DVDs, half-hour television shows, documentaries, you name it, I've probably tried it. Over the years we've accumulated a lot of equipment and are just now venturing into producing content for other churches to use in their services. We have multiple HD cameras (used in our sanctuary for IMAG but I can use them on shoots) a 16 foot jib, a mini green screen studio, and a Varizoom steadicam. It's taken us a lot of years to get here but it has been a great trip.
There are quite a few churches in the LA area and some of them might be looking for some talented video producers/editors who can take them to the next level. You just might have to watch your language

 

Wow, Pixel. I think I actually disagree with every sentence you said. heh
Let's explore a couple of them.

Well, you kind of have to argue that against the renaissance VFX is having. "Set up badly" as compared to what? They seem to be doing just fine. If they weren't, they would be out of business. You hear about it when that happens.

To explore that idea a little deeper, I could also challenge you to define exactly what the "VFX industry" "is". Anybody who can "buy" After Effects can become a visual effects artist, and sell their services to movies and television. Because there is no VFX union, features and TV don't have to pick from a list of sanctioned studios. They can go to whoever they want. So it's up to whoever can promise the best work for the cheapest price, on time... and can prove it. It's very democratic.

Well, ideally, sure. That's the ambition of any business. You seem to be under the impression that people know, in man-hours, how long everything will take, and intentionally allot less time for the work. I would put the challenge to you, to think back to a large VFX project you did in the past and ask yourself honestly, before you started, how long you thought it would take, and how long it actually took. If you do freelance work where you make a budget before you start, then you probably already know. It's usually longer, and it's unpredictable. That doesn't really change whether you're doing a shot for a student film, or you're doing a hundred shots for a feature film.

The visual effects "industry" is rather unique. I recently came to a subtle epiphany that our job is to "do anything". I mean, literally. Anything someone can imagine, it becomes our job to not only realize this idea in a visual medium, but we also end up "fixing" anything they did wrong, or wish they had done differently. At the end of the day there is nothing we "can't" do in VFX. What we do have control over is saying how much it will cost them, in time and money; and they have to pick their battles. Unless you're James Cameron.

In a field that is essentially artistry, it's remarkable to me that any project, especially large ones, is ever even completed, much less on a time schedule, and on a budget. It should come as no surprise that when a director decides to change his mind every time he sees a shot, even though you charge him for each revision, you'll end up with a big pile of work at the 11th hour. It's only natural. VFX is creative freedom, long after almost everything else is locked in. The only reason a client stops noodling around is because they run out of either time or money. And with so many people out there trying to undercut each other to provide that work, more often than not, it ends up being the time that runs out first. So you get late nights and short-hire artists to get it done at the end of many big projects. I don't think that means there is something "wrong", I think it's an inevitable aspect of what it is that we do. If you had infinite time and money, it would never be finished. And so it's a matter of budgeting your time within the studio, on how to attack a project. There's never really a 100%.. it's just doing the best you can with what you have before it's taken away. I have found myself becoming strangely more comfortable with it over the years; knowing that it's just a part of the process.

As to the job hopping aspect: It is understandably scary. To not be assured employment week to week is unsettling. Especially in the beginning, when your body of work may not be assuring you as many landed gigs as you need to be able to book yourself consistently. But, strangely, this is kind of the norm in VFX. For the majority o

 

To Ryan: "yep."

To Pixel: It's not that bad, sir. I've been consistently employed for over two years, with my longest period of unemployment being just a couple of weeks. (And we're talking about ending and starting over a dozen jobs.) In the last year or so, I've only halfheartedly tried to line up the next gig and had it happen anyway. Work brings work.

 

Perhaps I am mistaken, I hope that I am. It may not be as bad as I think it is, but I've just heard some horror stories from people in the industry, and it scares me. I've heard of people having to work 60-80 hours a week as the norm, and sometimes a little more during crunch times. I've heard of people not being paid when they should be. You might say, "Well, you are fairly compensated for those 60-80 hours with overtime", and maybe that is true, but I think working 40-45hrs a week is already pushing it, and any more than that is just insane. I know 40 hrs. is the norm, but I think the U.S. works too much. In Europe they work less hours, and have a month of vacation a year.

Perhaps I've just heard bad stories from bad studios and people who let themselves be walked all over. Still, the idea of job hopping scares the hell out of me, but maybe I'd get used to it like Teague says, and maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I guess if you are good, you'll always have demand for work lined up. Having an emergency savings account would probably help make me feel more comfortable about it as well.

I am actually starting work at a start-up VFX facility this summer, so we'll see how it goes. I'm pretty sure the employment will be steady there, at least for a year or two. So that will give me plenty of time to save up.

 

Having a cash buffer saved up before coming out is definitely something I recommend. Even though I have seen folks come out here with nothing but their car, and manage to scrape by and even eventually become successful, you have to anticipate the strong possibility of a slow start.

As for the horror stories you hear... I personally have never heard of a place that regularly pushes artists into heavy overtime. At the end of big projects? It happens, yes. But I would not say that it happens consistently. Again, I guess Teague can chime in on that.

 

Well, working at a start up like he is, he's actually more likely than one would normally be to encounter long hours. Anyway.

I'd say ninety percent of my cumulative experience has been of eight or ten hour days, depending on what the company wants. In other words, clock-punching average. Some studios are better managed than others, and the ones with more problems (usually relating to money) will average more over-time than another studio.

At the end of the day, it seems to be that the bigger the studio (IE, the bigger the project) the longer the hours can be.

 

What is really worrying me now, is all the talk of outsourcing VFX work to other countries. Some people are saying in a few years time, there won't even be a VFX industry in the United States to speak of. This really saddens me. I want to do VFX for a living, but I don't want ot have to move to India to do it. Listen to this podcast interview with Scott Ross for more info...

http://www.fxguide.com/modules.php?name=fxpodcast&pa=listen&path=modules/fxpodcast/files/fxg-091211-ScottRoss.mp3

 

The vast majority of FX jobs are not at big studios, they're at the thousands of two-to-twelve employee studios, who generally aren't in a position to outsource what they do to some foreign country.

 

Yeah, but my goal is to eventually work my way up to a staff position at one of the big studios, so I may be out of luck by the time I'm ready to do it.

 

Might as well start your own IMO.

 

I don't have the business sense, money, or desire to start my own studio. I just want to work for someone else who hands me a paycheck.

 

Apparently I need to re-format the sticky to include industry topics like this one. Kudos to all who chimed in - this is a good resource for people wanting to get involved.

 

Looking for work/inspiration? (forwarded from social thread)

Mandy

Motionographer

 

Sorry to bring up a month old thread, but I'm just another old guy back for a visit and this thread certainly piqued some interest.
One thing I love seeing is how many folks that were inspired by this site back in the run-up to (and releas

1) This is a VERY diverse industry. Asking broad questions ("Do people use AE? Cinema4D? Should my reel be specialized?") about the "Visual Effects Industry" is a little like asking someone in the "Transportation Industry" if important to know how to drive stick shift. (Ask someone that drives trucks, you might get a "Yes". Ask an airline pilot, and the answer might be "No").

Visual Effects and animation markets (and jobs and their tools and needs) for commercial video, TV Adverts, cable broadcast, network broadcast and feature films as different as airlines and trucking lines.
Much of what's being said in the recording (though understood it's an older recording) is really great and relevant to TV broadcast, but sometimes a bit counter to the feature film segments.

Again, we know this is a good 2 years old, and clearly it still has a great deal of value and interest. Really hope to hear you guys re-visit this conversation for an update on your careers and your impressions on your segments of the industry and more reader/listener Q&A.

2) For ANYONE seriously interested in visual effects, even as an "intense hobbiest", but ESPECIALLY if you're considering exploring this as a career ... make a plan to visit a SIGGRAPH conference some time.
This year the conference is in LA, next year is in Vancouver (make a vacation trip of it). To call this the "comic-con" of visual effects would be a bit of an understatement. This conference is a once-per-year gathering of ALL segments of computer graphics related industries. From academics studying computer science and vfx research, to ALL the major (and most of the minor) shops from feature films, TV and video game production, (most with their HR Recruiting crews in tow), to all the major vendors of software and hardware that service them. You can have a seat at ILM and listen to John Knoll chat about the latest developments from his camp, take a couple steps to the left and see a motion capture session in progress ... a few more steps to the east and you talking it up with the guy that writes SynthEyes, and then circle back for a presentation on the coolest new features in Renderman over at Pixar.

If you're considering this area as a career, (particularly if you don't already live in LA) this conference is an ideal way to informally stop in and gather first hand information about studios from every market segment of the industry and every corner of the world. I visited SIGGRAPH as a "spectator" about a year before applying to any shops, just to stand near the recruiters and hear what they were asking and listen to how prospective artists applying to jobs answered. It was a HUGE help when it came time to kick off my own job search because it was like I'd already been through it all before.

3) If you're here right now, doing your own effects with whatever tools you have, and you're thinking this might be an interesting career but are afraid it's probably just not possible .... understand that it IS possible, wherever you live. First of all, there are more remote learning resources now than EVER.
Secondly, it's not just a couple "regular" people like Ryan and Teague that have done this. MOST of the people in the industry have. That was my own biggest surprise when I worked at Digital Domain. NOBODY was from LA. My supervisor was from New Jersey, and a guy two chairs over from me was from Allentown.
If you're focused, you can do it too.

Hope this helps.
Good luck.