main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Lit Vong and Rakata: related?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darklordoftech, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Considering the similarities between Essential Reader's companion's description of an old Vong concept and the Rakata, combined with the similarities between Vong culture and Rakata culture, I have come to suspect that a group of Rakata settled on Yuuzhan'tar and became the Vong. Any thoughts on this?
     
  2. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    The Yuuzhan Vong were analogous to Zonama Sekot on Yuuzhan'tar prior to the Cremlevian War, which isn't at all like the Rakata.
     
  3. MasterGhandalf

    MasterGhandalf Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Ignoring for a moment the sheer distances involved (how would the Rakata have made it all the way out to the Vong galaxy), there's also physical appearance to consider. How exactly does an amphibian/reptilian race the look a bit like bipedal, tailless chameleons turn into a mammalian race who look like big, muscly humans with sloping foreheads and flat noses? Besides, I'd always gotten the impression that the Vong were native to Yuuzhan'tar. The two races in some ways parallel each other, but I really doubt they're actually related.
     
  4. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    It'd be an interesting contrast to have a race where nearly the entire population has access to the Force in some way through their technology, goes to being a race that not only can't touch the Force but is completely invisible to it. However like the two posters above me I can't see it being true.
     
    darklordoftech likes this.
  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    That is what ended up happening to the Rakata.
     
  6. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    Well yeah, but assuming game mechanics are accurate they were still able to be effected by your Force Powers (As Revan) unlike the Yuuzhan Vong depending on what book you're reading at the time. I'd also assume they were able to be sensed in the Force or it would've been noted in some way. Not to say there aren't similarities between the two races, but there are similarities between many of the races we've seen in the Star Wars Universe.
     
  7. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I would keep that part in mind.
     
  8. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    The means by which the Yuuzhan Vong and Rakata lost access to the Force have been explained and each event occurred in separate galaxies. The Yuuzhan Vong were stripped of the Force by Yuuzhan'tar while the Rakata had succumbed to a disease iirc. In addition, the Rakata could still be felt in the Force, their entire species just lost the capability of Force sensitivity. The Yuuzhan Vong were literally stripped of the Force.
     
  9. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011

    That's the only part that different authors had different interpretations of. Them not being visible in the Force however was universally agreed upon, and that again did not happen to the Rakata.
     
  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I'll give you that.
     
  11. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    In biological terms the Yuuzhan Vong have about ten million times more commonality with Homo sapiens than they do with the Rakata, a species to whom they bear no similarity in biology, physical attributes, or even really in culture. The Rakata are obsessed with personal power and dominance due to a belief in their own superiority, the Yuuzhan Vong are a society dominated by a controlling religion that has led to an obsession with sadomasochism and body modification.

    Honestly, the Yuuzhan Vong can mate with humans. How that happens between two species that supposedly originated in two separate galaxies is unclear (and one of the many ridiculous features of the Yuuzhan Vong). If you're looking for weird mytho-historical shared heritage you might start there.
     
  12. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    You know, there's no difference between extraterrestrial and extragalactic life in terms of not sharing an origin. So it's no more ridiculous than humans being able to mate with any other alien species such as Twi'leks or Zabraks in Star Wars.
     
  13. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Not truly - astronomers can detect differences in composition (ie. elemental abundance, radiation levels) on a galaxy wide scale in addition to a solar system scale. So while the two trees of life would not have any greater similarity evolutionarily, they would have greater chemical similarity.
     
  14. LivingJediDream

    LivingJediDream Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2010
    I don't think that level of verisimilitude matters for Star Wars. Plus, if they're all carbon based life, the chemical differences of their environments won't matter as they will be built similarly on that level.

    But the point remains. Twi'leks and Zabraks, as Star Trek style low budget humans with prosthetics, are just as ridiculous!
     
  15. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    There are actually multiple in-universe explanations for those commonalities at this point. There is no such invocation regarding the Yuuzhan Vong, and no implication that any of the usual suspects (Celestials, Rakata, Gree, etc.) ever did anything in the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy. I suppose we can blame the Abominor and the Silentium if we want to (there being no one else at the moment), but it is still frustrating.

    Twi'leks and Zabraks actually had to be portrayed by human actors - the Yuuzhan Vong, as a solely literary creation, did not. There was no reason to make them human analogues, but Del Rey did it anyway.
     
  16. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I don't remember that happening, then again i haven't read the entire NJO.
     
  17. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Zabraks are near-humans, so not actual aliens unlike Twileks.

    Zabraks being able to mate with baseline humans makes sense, humans with twileks.......not so much.
     
  18. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Wait what? When did that ever happen?
     
  19. MasterGhandalf

    MasterGhandalf Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2009
    I can recall a couple of instances where human characters found Vong attractive (the priestess Elan was considered a beauty by both species' standards, and Shesh thinks that Tsavong Lah was probably handsome underneath all his scars), but I don't recall it ever going further than that, and I certainly don't remember a viable hybrid. Or is this in some sourcebook/article/thing rather than the main NJO?

    I know fanfics where humans and Vong got it on and produced kids, but I don't think that counts;).
     
  20. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Lack of creativity on Del Rey's part.
     
  21. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    In Invasion. Nina Galfridian, who is a Yuuzhan Vong, is married to Caled Galfridian, who is human. Nina is masquerading as a human and believes called doesn't know what she is (he does). Unless they have a very strange marriage, they're sleeping together.
     
  22. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Oh that, well the parts properly "fit", but their children are very likely to be something else then "classic" Hybrides, though sadly Invasion got cut before we ever found out what exactly.
     
  23. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2009

    Being able to mate is not the same a producing viable offspring, humans and Twi'leks can mate but can't reproduce.
     
  24. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    I didn't say that it was, that's why I used the term 'mate.' The very fact that the sexual organs fit together in species that should not be related at all is still an unrealistically remarkable display of convergence.

    And Humans and Twi'leks can reproduce together (unfortunately) though it remains to be seen whether their hybrid offspring are fertile or not.
     
  25. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    As I said, Del Rey made the Vong physically resemble humans too much. The Vong should have be as alien physically as they are locationally.
     
    Gamiel likes this.