Canada WAR

If you love war, and are supporting this, be happy to know your children may die in such a situation.

For cryin out loud! Somebody get this through everyone's head! I do not love this war!!! I hate it! I can't stand it! Just because I support this friggin thing doesn't mean I like it!

This isn't worth the headache. I'm sick of having to say the same thing over and over. Steph and I have a hard enough time with this IRL. I don't need to have my views trashed here, too.

*makes mental note to stay far away from the post button in this thread*

 

I don't need to have my views trashed here, too.

there is a difference between a difference of opinion and trashing. we are all entitled to an opinion, and even entitled to think we are right, but to trash another person is just mean. tamber, i'm sorry you feel you are being trashed (and i hope by trashed you mean more than it just being obvious people disagree) and if i am contribituing to that feeling, let me know, and i will stop

i do disagree with you, but from my end, that has nothing to do with how i view you or what i think about you, it's just a difference of opinion

personally, i like people to have different opinions and express them, otherwise, how are we ever going to grow?

 

Shock and Awe... what can I say? Not only is it immoral, but it's illegal as well. As far as I'm concerned, Junior Bush has become a war criminal. He will be judged accordingly by God when he dies. I think the war mongers such as Junior Bush should be made to watch the terrible evil that was unleashed against the Iraqi people yesterday. White House Spokesman Ari Fleisher said yesterday that Junior Bush did not watch it on TV. He ordered it. The least he can do is have the guts to watch what he's done.

"Liberation" of the Iraqi people my foot! A puppet leader, friendly to the west, will be installed in Iraq, and there will be tension between Iraq and its neighbours. They don't like western democracries in their backyard. Look at Israel. Quite frankly, I think the Iraqi people are better off under President Hussein.

And what's with all this talk about WMD? America has enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world 30 times. They have no right to deprive Iraq of far inferior weapons, such as SCUDs with chemical warheads. Not only that, but America has used their WMD in the past against major cities.

"Well, he can't have those weapons because he used them to kill a few thousand Kurdish rebels."

Big deal! America in the past has nuked major cities and killed hundreds of thousands of people. And what did America do when those Kurds were killed? Absolutely nothing. They don't care about those Kurds.

With great power comes great responsibility. The irresponsibility of this and other Administrations is frightening.

 

I think a good rule of thumb for this thread is "DO NOT DIRECTLY RESPOND TO A SPECIFIC COMMENT OF A PERSON WHO POSTED BEFORE YOU." (Don?t quote from another person)

You should not have to defend yourself or you thoughts in this thread. Calling another poster out will generally make them feel they are being centered out for thinking like they do. Post your opinion and leave it at that. If you have more to add, do so. But do not set yourself up to directly respond to someone else?s opinions. If they do not equal yours fine, just leave it.

*I will start to moderate that and I will start deleting posts that do not comply.

 

"Well, he can't have those weapons because he used them to kill a few thousand Kurdish rebels."

That wasn't a direct quote from anyone in this thread, Chris. That was just quoting what many warmongers worldwide have said.

 

This is somewhat of a repost from the 'Freedonia's gone to war' thread in Toronto.
--

Force - too often - is the tool of the unimaginitive for solving problems. It's the quick and easy way.

Unless immediate or direct threats are facing us or others, I don't think that force should be brought into the equation.

No war is a good thing, and no war should be desired, but sometimes there are just causes for war. What would constitute a just war?

• A war waged in defense of a direct and immediate threat.
  (e.g., Saruman has been sending orcs and wild men to pillage the communities on the outskirts of your land. Now he has set forth thousands of orcs towards your kingdom, with the sole purpose of killing everyone and everything. Time to ride in defense of Rohan)


• The primary goal of a just war should be to re-establish peace. The secondary goal of just war should be freedom and rights of the individual.
  (e.g. the Trade Federation invaded Naboo as a protest of taxes - not an example of just cause. The Gungans fought the droid army to help free the Naboo. That's just cause.)


• A just war must focus on military targets and reducing the oppositions ability to wage war. Civilians casualties must be avoided when possible.
  (e.g. When Gort, the robot, opened up on the US army, he focused his disintigration ray on the rifles, the howitzers and the tanks. Not once was the beam aimed at a person - only on the instruments of war.)


• for a war to be just, all non-violent means must be exhausted.
  (e.g., has anyone ever tried just talking to Godzilla? No. They just open up with their guns, and tanks, and laser tanks. Doesn't matter that he's saved the world from other giant monsters, assorted alien invaders, and evil folk from under the sea. Nope. They just start shooting away at the big guy on sight. Maybe -just maybe- if they offered him a bottle of sake, some sushi, and sat down to chat with him, they'd find he wasn't such a bad radioactive dinosaur after all.)

The current war doesn't meet these criteria. The threat is neither direct nor immediate - despite the lies* and propaganda* to the contrary - nor were all non-violent means exhausted. I'm willing to grant that there is a limited effort made to avoid civilian casualties - but I do not think that the establishing of peace nor the rights of the Iraqi people are truly a part of the equation * . Simply afterthoughts that may or may not come to pass at the whim of the Bush Administration.

---

In the United States, to bring someone to trial, you must first have compelling evidence that they have perpetrated a crime. The person must then be shown, beyond a reasonable doubt, to have committed the crime. Many states and US courts are struggling with the issue of whether even 'beyond a reasonable doubt' is an acceptable level of proof to reach in doling out capital punishment.

Yet here we have hundreds and thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens who will die - not because of anything they've done - but because 'someday Iraq might be involved in a 9/11 type situation'.

---

"I was perfectly within my rights to shoot that five year old, your honour.

Stats show that one out of every thousand is a criminal and that almost 1 in 8 crimes is of a violent nature. If I didn't kill that little boy, it's perfectly possible that he could have grown up to rape my wife and murder me.

What's that? The other ten people I shot? Well - they were in the way of the little boy. Their deaths are regretable, but when you're fighting rapist killers, that sort of thing will happen from time to time"

 

"DO NOT DIRECTLY RESPOND TO A SPECIFIC COMMENT OF A PERSON WHO POSTED BEFORE YOU." (Don?t quote from another person)

That sucks. JKJKJKJKJKJK.

Now that i have THAT out of my sytem...


I think i SUPPORT this thing. I'm no fan of war, and yes, it should be avoided at all costs, but i guess someone has to get rid of Saddam. America may not have any right to just go in there and do what they're doing, but i think theyre doing the right thing. i guess. And no one's gonna take the UN seriously once this is over, but i dont think they should if it allows Saddam to continue being bad. anyways the tylendrugs i just take make me sleepy. more later.

 

I take the UN more seriously now than ever. They have shown in the past that they will fight for a just cause. Now they have shown that they are not America's puppet. They'll stand up for what is right, no matter who opposes them.

I liked your little boy analogy, TragicLad.

 

"Saddam was supposed to get rid of weapons of mass destruction. If he has al of these terrible weapons, why isn't he using them now?"

i think he's holding them back and then boom everyone dies and the world becomes a nuclear waste land.


worst outcome of war.

I oppose the fact that the war is taking place if the americans really want Saddam out that badly they should hire an assassin or a bounty hunter to take him out. It would make life easier.

I have to say though those Tomahawk missisle are to powerful i wonder what would happen if we were to inspect the united states weapons inventory?

 

onyl one problem with the bounty hunter thig...they have to find hussein first...

 

the consiquences of the US pulling out of the UN does kinda make me wonder...Germany did the same thing, and the group that was formed after WWI was desolved and another war happened....just kinda makes me think

i personally don't think this is the end of the world...then again, if it is, we really can't do anything about it, it will happen anyway.

 

thank goodness.

 

The League of Nations was a joke, and cannot be compared to the UN.

Ironic that America created it but never joined it.

 

Some random thoughts:

In a reversal to events earlier this week, Canadians cheered the American national anthem whilst Americans booed the Canadian anthem. * So Tag, we're 'it'. Our turn to boo them and their turn to cheer us.

"More sex, less Bush" * is the winner for the anti-war slogan of the week contest.

Hundreds of Thousands march in New York and across the world. Funny - when I watched coverage of the event on NBC, the reporter said there "might be as many as a thousand people".

Say - is that US missile going the wrong way? Couldn't be. Not with 'precision' weaponry like that.

 

O Canada drew steady booing in Sunrise, Fla., before the Ottawa Senators' victory over the Florida Panthers.

Hah.

Lovely how they jump all over us for booing their anthem, but they have no problem booing ours. And, of course, bringing that fact up in JCC right now would be a bannable offence.

It'll be interesting to see Bush's reaction to the friendly fire incident with the RAF plane today. When our soldiers were killed in Afghanistan, Bush's refusal to offer his condolances to the Canadian people and the families of the dead bred much anti-Americanism in this country. Bush screwed that up badly, and if he makes the same mistake again, the British public will turn even more against the war.

 

Well, I'm french, and France is against war. But I have to admit that Saddam Hussein must disappear. But this war is unfair, and Bush is crazy, and he must see a shrink.
I know that a lot of G.I. are enlisted because of 11th september, and this warcis not their battle, it's the Bush'Battle.

 

Good point Thrawn...EVERY TIME I've been to a sporting event in the united states, our anthem has been "booed" without fail. That's fine by me actually, just don't whine when you get it thrown back at you.

I love my country, but the actions of a few don't worry me. It's actually really good to see the U.S. perpetuating its crybaby status in the world. Someone get bush a bottle, his temper tantrums are becoming worse.

Thrawn, if that is a bannable offense, then you nor i should want any part of the JC...but luckily we have Chris here to use common sence...not ban happy morons who have american propaganda on the brain.

 

it does concern me that tempers and bannings around JC are happening

i can understand consiquences for personal attacks, but for a difference of opinion? that takes things a little far

of corse, then again i am a frantic idealist who tends to get herself into trouble....

 

of corse, then again i am a frantic idealist who tends to get herself into trouble....

So am I.

Isn't it ironic how the JC regime openly censors anyone who opposes the removal of an oppressive regime?

 

i gues si'm just so used to being disagreed with that it rolls off my back

i'm not trying to get anyone to agree with me, in fact, i'm very curious as to what they believe and why
and then peple are getting offended, and that just makes no sense to me...and then we're treated like children in an argument that need to be separated instead of as adults who are capable of thinking for themselves

 

Hey now all...I agree with some statements, about censorship in the JC, but remember, we choose to post here, and if we dont like it, we are free to leave.

I for one think all of you are worth my time, if i agree with you or not, and hopefully you will all calm down and have some tea, and maybe have a diffrence of opinion without freaking out.

 

Just a quick note about the League of Nations.

It was Woodrow Wilson who came up with the idea for it and he had every intention of the United States joining. When it came time though he was unable to get the senate to back the United States joining.

On another note, i believe the UN to be very outdated and in desprate need of reform. The whole veto system in the security council should be thrown out as no country should be able stop a motion from going through that has the majority of the vote. (This was a large problem in the case with this war as what was the point of the US from continuing to go through the UN if France was going to veto everything)

Second if the UN sees a problem in the world or something unjust as happening then they should go in and stop it! A dictator like Saddam who tests weapons and mass kills his OWN people should not have been able to stay in power for all of this time and i blame the UN for this.

There is only one other small reform that i would suggest that doesn`t really have a bairing on this war but i`ll put it in anyways. Don`t let countries that have a recent and CURRENT problem with human rights issues ont he Human Rights Council. This just makes no sence!

I really hope that the way the UN is run is looked at soon because maybe that if it addressed some of these concerns there would not be a need for wars or suffering in the world.

 

Friend just emailed to me, a guide to safety in a time of war.

 

Oh Rob! Thats totally unfair!! Warn people that they may collapse laughing!!!

 

Some here too

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