WAREZ ... LET'S CALL IT WHAT IT IS ... STOLEN

Jeez, little ole' me started this

Look guys I feel that arguing about this is like arguing about politics or religion.The truth is I've been in many boards where discussions like this lead to "right/wrong" discussions then lead to - guess what - politics and religion??!?!?

So can we just agree to not agree...






<The preceeding words were brought to you by the dark side and satan>

 

Point: Ppl will keep using warez no matter what, we ourselves cant stop it. The only punishment for many will be to know its wrong and, even so, keep on doing it.

Carl

 

For the record, here's what the OFFICIAL FAN FILMS FORUM FAQ states ...

"Warez is stealing, and advocating it will get you banned and/or your thread locked. We're very strict on this policy for two reasons. First of all, stealing is wrong and this forum is no place to share your support of it. Many of the forum's members work in the technology field and would be particularly offended to hear their kind of work is being acquired free after all the hard work they put into such software. Additionally, if word gets out that Star Wars fan films are being made with stolen software, George Lucas may decide to shut down the entire hobby.
If you're unfamiliar with exactly what warez constitutes: Warez is software, normally sold in stores, that has been illegally copied and distributed. If you acquired such software via an Internet download or a burned CD-R, it may be stolen. "

 

I think Semaj and TAC make some very good points and I agree with Morpheus in saying that we should agree to disagree, arguments like this go nowhere. I personally don't have a working computer to use warez on however all the software I need fortunately I can get from a friend's mum who works for Adobe.

I think we just shouldn't talk about warez altogether. It's obvious many people here have different opinions which they are entitled to. Some people will disagree with others but bottom line; we are all here to help each other out. So lets just stop arguing.

Shoveler

 

"Warez is stealing, and advocating it will get you banned..." So what it is saying is that as long as you don't talk about it nothing will happen.

Don't get me wrong everyone I am not a Pirator (my deffinition at least) I have paid for every bit of software that I have made money with.

 

Websters defines debate as:

debate (di-'bAt)
: a contention by words or arguments: as a : the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure b : a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

or

ar·gue ('är-(")gyü)
1 : to give reasons for or against something : REASON
2 : to contend or disagree in words : DISPUTE
transitive senses
1 : to give evidence of : INDICATE
2 : to consider the pros and cons of : DISCUSS
3 : to prove or try to prove by giving reasons : MAINTAIN
4 : to persuade by giving reasons : INDUCE


So, you see, Morpheus/Shoveler this is a positive thing, not a negative thing.

 

Well then in that case...

I am stating that I do not use Warez software...

My opinion about condoning it may imply differently, but I do not have any WAREZ programs...

 

Very well. Semaj, if you want to emphasize to newbies that using warez is illegal and could get them banned from the boards that's fine I say go ahead and you have my support. I respect everybody on this board, including you and in doing so I respect your ideas. But as somebody said warez is a problem that is not going to disappear.

Shoveler

 

Of course it isn't going to disappear. That wasn't the goal of this thread at all. And yes, I respect all opinions as well. I may disagree with them, may post a spirited defense of my p.o.v., but at the end of the day, we're all friends here.

Accept for TAC that is ...

 

Hmm... I find it interesting that a fan film group such as ourselves would come down on people that use warez so much... I mean people who use warez copy someones software... You are copying someone elses original ideas in your own story... Its sort of the same thing, don't you think? I mean we copy the ships, the characters and sometimes the storyline of things that were invented by George Lucas dont we? Oh, and just in case anyone trys to say fan films are not illegal.... THEY ARE, just as illegal as pirated software... If you sell a fan film they will take you down, if you sell pirated software they will take you down. If you have and distribute a fan film they will leave you alone, if you have and distribute warez they leave you alone... Kinda the same thing eh? I don't know about you guys but if people are trying to make their own statement and it doesn't victimize anyone directly I am okay with it, how about you?

Well thats just my two cents see ya all later.

 

By the way,

I am of the opinion that just because you dont make any money off - lets say - using Lucas copyright work - making it morally right...

In the last issue of Videomaker I was reading about some dude that made a Fanfilm then got a job with ILM. Doesn't that mean that he is profiting of copyright material? (He got the job because of the film)

Just because Lucas is ok with it, does it make it right?

I'm not trying to flame here. I love this place and the info I've received from u guys is amszing. But if we are going to have a moral debate...then lets lay all the cards on the table...

 

wow u beat me to it

 

Which is as it should be, Morph. Oh, and for the record, I wrote that Videomaker article and learned that my information on Justin Dix - the director of Bountry Trail - was incomplete. He did get a job working on Ep. II ... he worked w/ R2D2. Not necessarily ILM, but he did get noticed as a result of Bounty Trail. But that's entirely different ... and yet, not. The only difference is that FanFilms exist because Lucas accepts them. And as long as we don't profit directly ... i.e., sell our films, etc. We have defacto permission to continue.

 

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No? Discreet's 3dsMax more your thing?
They are preparing a demo cd to be released this summer.
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I could go on, but I think I've made my point. There is no reason to have pirated software when the companies are letting you use it for free for enough time to decide if it is worth it to you to buy it.

 

Regarding Spottnick post:
Isn't some of the fanfilms here like Duality (which nowhere in the film has any mention of starwars) considered a parody, thus making it legal? Correct me if i am wrong. I can understand all the film we have that actually have the traditional Starwars intro at the beginning being illegal. But anway...

 

EXTREMELY good point there, Spottcatt. Although there are always rules that differentiate the legalitites of films from those of software. I'm no lawyer, so I wouldnt know. But that is why they have something called a "Disclaimer" that comes along with any piece of software.

Carl

 

I think the thing that bugs people like Semaj and myself the most are when people (new or verteran) post messages saying that they have all these programs, but don't seem to have the faintest idea how to use them . . . and won't bother to even look into the online HELP functions available in most programs these days.

If people would simply either take the time needed to LEARN these programs (warez or otherwise), and not feel that they have to inflate their sense of self-worth by listing their software catalog, this problem might not surface as much.

Here is an example of how a a software related question could be better phrased:
In 3D Studio MAX, how does one <insert inquiry here> ??

Rather than:
I have 3D MAX, Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Lightwave, Maya, Softimage, Electric Image, and Premiere . . . how do I <insert uninformed inquiry here> ??"



EDIT: Just read Semaj's comment ... OUCH

 

Duality... The one where a SITH lord comes down in his TIE FIGHTER, then gets in a fight with another SITH lord using LIGHTSABERS and then they kill each other... I always thought a parody was funny? Somehow you've got a sick sense of humor if you find that funny.. I dunno?

Hmm, Semaj I don't know, just because nobody goes after you for making a fan film that means that you have "defacto" permission, does that mean because nobody goes after you for pirating software you have "defacto" permission? Hmm... Your logic is flawed.

 

This is why the subject isn't to be brought up in the first place. The use of Warez is generally frowned upon on this board. Why? Because it's illegal.

The cloning analogy doesn't work. Why? Because the first husband didn't purchase his wife. There is nobody who owns a patent on her DNA and is selling the product. And the hypothetical cloner isn't circumventing paying for copywritten DNA by stealing said DNA from a copy that was already purchased by someone else. Because if everyone were stealing this hypothetical DNA and producing their own copies, where would the original company be getting its money? Oh, that's right, they'd be getting it by charging inflated prices (paid for by those people who want to stay honest) in order to keep their companies in the black.

 

TAC and I agree again? MOTHER OF GOD!