* WARNING * Mature themes within -- Rainbow stickers and lightsabers, Challange issued!

Torture is one of those tricky ones...

YOu don't want to show so much that your reader is physically sick or that you break that guidelines for the forum...and yet you really need to get across to your reader the horrible, indescribably pain that the character is feeling. I think ANH did it well...you saw the droid enter Princess Leia's stall, but you saw nothing after that...you knew what was going to happen- but it was also left nicely (or not so nicely) to the imagination

Perhaps the biggest thing with torture (or any of the issues brought up in this thread) is showing the after-effects. Too many characters seem to bounce from one torture, to another, to a bought of illness, to being the subject of rape...without a side-effect to be seen on the pyschological side of the the character. From torture a person might be scared of trusting people or be jumpy or something like that.

Anyway, enough late night ramblings from me.

 

*delurking* I think you also need a solid REASON for torture. I am always bothered by all the torture fics where there isn't really a point for the hero to be tortured except that the author wants to show some sort of tender reconciliation at the end (the "hurt/comfort" thing) or just to show that the bad guy is a bad guy. The plot is really essential, to show WHY torturing the character is necessary.

Also, I have found that the "Alfred Hitchcock" style is best... let it happen off stage or DON'T make it graphic... the reader's minds will supply all the gory details and they are usually much more imaginative than anything you the author could come up with. Remember the shower scene in "Psycho?" You don't actually see anything. Better yet, watch his "Rebecca!" He builds the suspense and the mental anquish of the heroine so slowly and beautifully... but NOTHING ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO HER! Even so, the way he does it has the viewer just waiting for someone to jump out at her or attack her or something. Brilliant!

 

You know it's sad. I've covered pretty much everything you've discussed in this thread in my "Eternity" series and a couple of other stories, and yet I don't know what to say.

I like torture for the mental side of things. For example, one of my characters in the official timeline is happy, innocent, and bouncy, then is captured and tortured for 9 months (SW calender) and returns cold and emotionless save for anger and a burning desire for revenge.

If anything, I used torture to make him grow. My character is now an assassin, a suicidal one at that, afraid of nothing, not even death. To him, death and pain is just another part of life simply because he lost everything in those 9 months. He was broken in mind and spirit, and will bare the emotional, physical, and mental scars for life.

 

I'm sort of similar the_jedi_princess - I've dealt with every single one of the problems brought up in this thread (with the exception of pedophillia and incest) - my big difference is I hold an opinion on a lot of issues and are never really afraid to share it

I, too, have a character (Tara) who went from being a bright but serious jedi padawan who was captured with her Master (who was bright, bouncy, loud and obnoxious) and both were tortured for about eighteen months. Tara becomes more serious and more withdrawn from the world - part of her torture involved rape. She won't let people get close to her except for Davin (her Master) and a few other close, close friends. She definitely won't let members of the opposite sex even touch her - as it stirs too many bad memories and feelings she would rather supress.

The torture had an entirely different affect on Davin - but that's mainly to do with his personality. He is one of those people who accepts everything as part of life and something that he'll have to live and learn from. The torture fits into that, but it does make him more thoughtful, more considerate that his actions may hurt/offend/destroy others... Davin also supresses and expresses a lot of his pain through helping other people and particularly his now blind padawan.

It's interesting how different people show the different effects of the plot points brought up in their stories...

Kithera

 

Perosally, I've never liked torture fics or understood the attraction to them. I agree though, as long as there is a clear plot, there can be a good toture fic.

I work more with romance/angst than write torture fics.

~aeryn

 

I've actually read a fic that was based solely on torturing Obi-Wan. It didn't even have a title. The funniest part was that it still got a lot of readers. Though I admit that some torture fics can be good, randomly seeing how much damage you can do to a character and get away with is rather sick. It also, as others have said, has to be tastefully written, no mega gory details. Also, if there is torture, it has to have a purpose. Does someone want info from the person being tortured? Is it revenge? There has to be a reason for it. You can't just do it for the hell of it.

I have a bit of torture in the fic I'm writing, but it's just that, a bit. Only about two screens worth in the entire fic. I may read some torture fics, but when it comes to writting them, "that is something I can not do." I usually try to make it as short and quick as possible.

I agree that some fics are poorly written in the fact that they have characters magically bouncing back to their normal happy selves after the incidents, and I made sure I avoided doing that in my own fic. Torture, whether mental or physical will always leave scars in one form or another, or at least it would for any realistic person/character.

Anyway, back to the shadows I go.

 

I don't know whether or not this is the right topic, but I have a rather sticky story that I'm writing and have no idea how about to go writing it. I'm writing a missing moments story in which Han and Leia finally have a moment to share love and explore intamacy after the Battle of Endor, but I don't want it to be porn, but rather somewhere around PG-13. Should I have sex in the story, and if I do, should I leave out graphics? And would basing the story on the character's feelings for each other and the cannon events after the Battle of Endor make for a valid story?
Lady Rebel

 

Wrong thread... right person!

Check your PM....

Edit:

Hmmm, seems as good a time as any to bring it back...

Writing GOOD sexual senerios... How to avoid the curse of 'captured lips' and biology lessons (be it PG-13 or PM chapter)... Too much moaning and groaning and 'shooting things' and bizzaro names for body parts... It CAN be done, a little innuendo can go a long way as well as some well placed 'descriptions'... writing love scenes as apposed to trying to out porn (or underwrite.. either is bad)... how do you handel it IF AT ALL?

 

Yay, back to a topic I can participate in!

I once wrote this very stupid description line in the middle of a kissing scene. Believe me, I must have been on something at the time. My beta still teases me about it mercilessly. I can just imagine getting a birthday card from her, and instead of putting a ?kiss? sign, she?ll put the words ?circular rotation? . I?m amazed that others didn?t approach me about that line.

Firstly, it?s really hard to write a love scene. Secondly, I know I never feel satisfied with mine (that might have something to do with my above story ). I?ve read some really good scenes, but I bet those authors tossed their heads at a kiss they never thought to be ?really good?. It?s just about getting that balance, trusting yourself to write the scene, and then not going back and editing the text to death and eventually screwing it up anyway.

I suppose I try to go by the ?what?s done is done? philosophy, but even then, I?m not totally devoted to that mindset.

Am

 

When I used to write NC-17 chapters, I remember, I didn't use a lot of description, but there was enough, where the reader could imagine what was going on. It is hard to write a chapter, where you know there's gonna be a lot of angst/romance and not take it too far the point it becomes a lemon.

But it can be done.

~aeryn

 

YAY! MY FAVORITE TOPIC!

Ok, I'm calm now.

Writing GOOD sexual senerios... How to avoid the curse of 'captured lips' and biology lessons (be it PG-13 or PM chapter)... Too much moaning and groaning and 'shooting things' and bizzaro names for body parts... It CAN be done, a little innuendo can go a long way as well as some well placed 'descriptions'... writing love scenes as apposed to trying to out porn (or underwrite.. either is bad)... how do you handel it IF AT ALL?

I had to learn how to write sexual scenarios without making them into biology lessons. My first couple of NC-17 pieces would make good entries into a Porn Joke Book because they were so badly written and just raunchy without showing the love between the couple (which if I had intended to show just back-alley getting-it-on, that would have been fine--but that wasn't my intention).

I think it's important, when writing an NC-17 love scene, not to mention the organs at all. Subtlety, while still allowing the reader to know exactly what is going on, is more important than a point-by-point description.

 

For what it's worth, I think that Anakin_Girl has made an excellent point, the key here is not to write the point-by-point description of the physical act, but to evoke the emotions of the couple, their emotional bond(not being a believer in 'meaningless sex' in stories) and the atmosphere, while still making it clear what is going on...It isn't easy as I have found out in drafting a late chapter of "Soul of Love and Bravery." Sometimes, fade-outs just don't satisfy, no matter how well crafted...

I will also say that I think author experience in this subject in real life deeply effects their writing of it. In other words, I think that an author's emotional baggage on the subjects of love, sex, and relationships marks all of their writings on such subjects.

 

As a nookie veteran , here's what I do:

1. Use the right language--If you stick with Gray's Anatomy, you will sound too clinical. If you stick with Penthouse/Playgirl forum, you will sound vulgar and gross. Some people want to sound crude depending on the tone of their stories, but since I'm a stick-to-canon, celebrate-the-love kind of gal, I avoid that. You also have to choose your euphemisms carefully; in fact, sometimes it's just best to call a salt shaker a salt shaker.

2. The sexiest organ is the brain--Focus on the romantic feelings of the characters, caressing, touching, etc.. You won't go wrong.

3. Keep 'em in character--To me nookie reads "right" if the characters are more or less the same way they are out of the bedroom. But here's where you get into territory where writers often project their own fantasies or fetishes onto the situation. For example, I've read countless stories where Leia or Padmé is very, very passive and Han or Anakin is very, very dominant. I never write them that way because well, I don't view Leia or Padmé as particularly passive.

4. If all else fails...--Keep it simple, don't write anything too crazy or complex. Some people simply have a hard time writing even mildly erotic stuff for whatever reason. I would say to them read other fan fics or even romance novels to see how it "works." Yes, they can be over-the-top in some instances but most romance novels have at least one decently-written sex scene.

--MissPadme

 

I think 'in the bedroom', Padme would often 'take the lead' so to speak. She is a strong woman who wouldn't turn into a wuss the instant the cloths come off. Anakin is totally devoted to her and is used to her 'taking charge' so to speak. Of course, this wouldn't preclude him being just as passionate as his wife, but like any guy, he probably has his moments...

 

Oh boy, you have no idea how I can go on about this topic.

Now, although I've read a few very good NC-17 stories, they were few and far between. For the most part, the things are just awful. Either they're too clinical, too vulgar Earth slangy (It's almost midnight, give me a break) or horribly euphemismy. There is really no need for the vivid detail, no matter which of these formats is used, that is so rampant.

Other little things that bother me are things like Luke being seemingly incapable of going five minutes without sex. I'm sorry, this guy is a Jedi Master. I don't care how hot Mara Jade might be, Luke still wouldn't turn into a sex crazed maniac.

You know, the more I think about the NC-17 fics I've read, the more I like PG rated stories.

YubYub and TG- Protecting fangirls from hormonally gifted fanboys since 2002

 

I'm definetely with ya on the sex-crazed maniac-ness (er... *non* sex-crazed maniac-ness... *that's* what I meant to say...).
In the right context, the occasional joke or intentional double-meaning on Luke and Mara (or Han and Leia, or Ani and Ami, or...)'s part can be amusing and serves to remind readers that they are indeed a couple. But they aren't going to be hopping in and out of bed every five minutes (I dressed up as a Jedi for Balticon- believe me, it takes a while to get that costume on and off, and there's nothing sexy about the process. That, if nothing else, would ensure they keep their clothes on.).

The key is getting good betas. I've been both blesed and cursed with betas that have a good eye for that sort of thing. The trade off for them screening out all the stupid stuff where smoochies are concerned, unfortunately, is that I also get random comments on things that aren't dirty at all (I once had a scene where a team of Jedi was landing a badly damaged ship on a planet. Turbulance on entry. Got an entire margin full of smarmy comments on that one... still haven't heard the end of it. Moral of this story is: I sympathise.).

 

Darth Breezy and anakin_girl:
I got your PM, Breezy and am writing a response. I agree with both of you, some well placed innuendo can go far, rather than a full blown out sex scence or fade out. I don't agree with using slang for body parts.
So Breezy, would Han or Leia be the leader in the bedroom? I can see Leia's natural leadeship coming out, but at the same time, she may not have the *experience* Han does in the bedroom.


Amidala_Skywalker:
I sympathsize, because I've been there and done that. The first time I had my story beta'd I had written in a full sex scene: I was told by all three of my beta readers that it was too clinical sounding, like a biology lesson. LOL!

GunraysLawyer:
I like your screen name, lol. I agree with anakin_girl and a couple others. I would like to develop the story based on Han and Leia's feelings, emotions, and love for each other.
I have had experience in the love department, although I don't know that I can incorporate my experience into my writing. I am somewhat feeling inhibited being that this is my first PG-13 love story involving sex.

MissPadme:
Thank you for the excellent suggestions!

PadawanRoo:
I have been asked questions on the OZ regarding this story, but with no responses. I do have bets readers, 3 in fact, and all have some or a lot of experience in writing love stories involving sex. I have no idea why I haven't consulted them, after all that's what they're here for.

Do I have everyone's permission to copy their suggestions to Microsoft Word( for saving and easy access)?

Has anyone heard from J_Girl recently? She's one of my betas, but has been absent from here since 8/24.

Oh, and the story won't be posted up here(because of content), but I'm thinking the Corellian Embassy, Organa-zation, or Soul of the Jedi. Right now, I'm putting it off being that I don't have time to work on it because of school (I'm taking 12 credit hours in college)

 

Hmmm can you believe I can contribute to every topic with an excerpt of something I've written on the subject - except this one

I've never written a sex scene, and everytime one has come up, I've shied away from it. I don't know why. I've read NC-17 stuff before (some good, some bad and some down right hilarious!) but it's never a subject that I've actually thought about putting pen to paper and portraying. Perhaps because deep down I don't know how to express the feelings before, during and after...and I feel a blow by blow description often does the story more harm then good. I also think some authors (like torture) don't use it in the right context, or overuse it and it becomes obvious that it is something that is just there for the hell of it.

Anyway, I have a snapshot coming up soon that involves romance...maybe I'll push the envelop a little more then I usually do for this one.

Kithera

 

If you want to copy my suggestion, ladyrebel, go right ahead.

I agree with everyone who has previously said that romance can be over-used. I love romance just as much as the next person ? especially if it?s between my favourite couple ? but if there?s too much of it, I find that I don?t concentrate on every detail as much. The same goes for NC-17 fan fiction. Details are a must, but writing NC-17 fan fic like an essay is madness. There is one thing that really puts me off, and that?s when people use the rude words for body parts (in kissing and sex scenes). What puts you off instantly? What?s your biggest peeve (the one and only)?

DOYY, LOL! I know exactly what you?re saying. Luke never had a relationship with a woman in the movies, though I can?t see him eager to make up for it after he?s defeated the Emperor (after all, he has a Jedi Order to rebuild).

Breezy, I agree. I think Anakin would be the more passionate, but that Padme?s strong streak would always lead. As to Leia and Han, I can see Leia being shy at first, but then going with the flow at Han?s reassurance.

Am

 

MissPadme, I totally agree with all your points. Thoughts, feelings, espicially of both characters during a love scene is a really great way to avoid going into description of the actual act itself. I use this technique more now then I used to when I first started to venture into NC-17. It's very useful.

~aeryn

 

ladyrebelsw1983

Please feel free to print out anything you see that you feel might help you! After all, we are here to help!



There is one thing that really puts me off, and that?s when people use the rude words for body parts (in kissing and sex scenes).

THAT!!!
It compleatly pulls me out of a story!!!

That and repeated discription of how hard the bodies are 'crashing' together and people 'Screaming'... Those of us who are knowlegaeable enough to write to know that making love isn't always an act of, well, advertisement to the world...

Again, greys anatomy does NOT need to be a referance guide to love making... you can do a heck of a lot with innuenedo...

He started kissing her again, teasing the inside of her thigh with his tongue and then his nose? ever upward.

You know where he ends up by the other characters reaction... it's not too difficult...

But as Lady Padme said, the BRAIN is the sexiest organ... you point the activies in the right direction and discribe the FEELINGS, not just the physical sensations....

Another thing people tend to forget... Foreplay and aftermath... you can do PAGES of foreplay... it doesn't have to be 'rip the cloths off and get busy'. Indeed, I find it more fun to tease the hell of of my Lovers... ANTICIPATION and aftermath, where lovers are just laying together, listening to each others heartbeats... ('I did that... she thought, feeling the pounding of his heart beneath her finger tips. 'His desire for me... his LOVE for me...') GOOD nookie will build a reader up, and slowly cool them down, easing them back into the rest of the story. Bad Nookie will be like a slap in the face, full of roughness and crudity and stop a story cold... no matter how skilled an author you are, if you don't follow the basic tenaments of writing (buildup, climax and epilogue of sorts) when Nookie writing just becomes an excersise in getting your characters laid, it really degrades your story.

 

I have a question about sex scenes. I don't think I've even read one really good NC-17 or any other rating sex scene. Mostly because if I'm reading NC-17, the passage is either like the anatomy lesson or the vulgar earth slang example. If a person is trying to write a scene for a younger audience, they normally use substitute phrases (aka: PURPLE PROSE) to describe sexual acts. I find all three examples laughable, and that prevents me from really getting a handle on what people do to make sex scenes good. I can't even write my own without it being absolutely pornographic, but that's ok, because I've allowed myself to write porn for myself.

What I really want to see is a good example of a scene (in any fandom) where sex is described well. I'm 22, so someone could PM it to me and it would be ok. I also have no restrictions on the sexual orientation of the couple, so feel free to show me a yaoi scene if you think it's the best ever.

Jae Angel

 

I have written a few 'spicier' chapters, but I always adhere to the rules I stated above... I've read too many BAD nookie fics to want to write them!

 

ladyrebel--Sure, you can save my suggestions . Thanks!

I'd have to agree my biggest turn off is vulgarity. If I see a description like this: "Han pulled off Leia's blouse and licked her ****" I'm done reading. Or if it's a character saying something totally not him/her or it's in the wrong context. "Suck my...." isn't romantic and won't enlighten me to the beauty of a couple's lovemaking.

Although I also get annoyed with overly-horny characters. Like Jedi Master Luke, for instance. Years ago I read in a fanzine a story where Han and Leia were pawing each other while they're supposed to be out accomplishing some mission. With hormones like these, how'd they defeat an Empire?

Breezy is correct about one thing, you can't just run in there in a hurry to get your characters in bed. You have to build things up and cool things off. And it has to fit in the context of the story. However, yours truly has written some smut where it was pretty much about the characters acting like bunnies. I do it judiciously, and I always make sure it's in the larger context of their relationship and that it's true to who these characters are.

--MissPadme

 

I recall reading stories on Fanfix.net by an author by the name of LeiaSkye, I think. They primarily dealt with Qui-Gon and his former apprentice.

I can't believe that I was so adventurous with my genres back then, as I rarely venture into prequel stories now, but I remember the stories were good. I know that the author paid attention to foreplay and sometimes dragged it out and had interruptions to drive the characters (and the readers) insane.

I wonder if anybody else has seen these stories, and if they have an opinion of them.

Jae Angel