WARNING: SPOILERS!!! Episode III and the RPG (Spoilers!)

Three main areas of concern:

1) Force Strike is used by Jedi Council members (specifically Obi-Wan and Yoda) against sentient, non-robotic creatures. A lot.

2) Yoda appears to (at the very least) Block Force Lightning back at Palpatine.

3) There will be debate over a line spoken by Obi-Wan -- "Only a Sith views things in such absolutes." In the context within which it is spoken, it makes sense, but it's unclear whether this will materially affect the RPG canon at all.

 

Interesting stuff.

1) Force Strike is used by Jedi Council members (specifically Obi-Wan and Yoda) against sentient, non-robotic creatures. A lot.

Hmm, this is a big one. It could give lightsiders a new all-around weapon.

2) Yoda appears to (at the very least) Block Force Lightning back at Palpatine.

This could be represented by some combination of the Block and Deflect abilities. I foresee some Jedi Counseling ruling in the future.

 

didn't mace windu do the same? hence palpies face

 

1) Force Strike is used by Jedi Council members (specifically Obi-Wan and Yoda) against sentient, non-robotic creatures. A lot.

Well it was always the EU that said Jedi wouldn?t hurt living beings. But GL?s vision is that in search of the greater good the jedi will do just about anthing in combat, apart from giving in2 there anger. & In the novel it runs through yoda?s mind (during his fight with palps) that the jedi had been defeated because they choose to fight which from a certain point of view shows that the jedi have abandoned the non violence philosophy by ROTS & in doing so it has lead to there defeat. To be honest I ignore wotc rulings about darkside points most of the time as its all subjective & unfortuanty the wizards of the coast (like the sith) views things in absolutes.



2) Yoda appears to (at the very least) Block Force Lightning back at Palpatine.

Block and Deflect abilities merged into one this will have to be rare ability.

 

didn't mace windu do the same? hence palpies face


No, that seemed to me to be consumption by the Dark Side -- as if using too much DS power at one time actually accelerates the destructive properties on one's own body...

 

Jedi Counseling #60:

Q: This may seem like an overly philosophical question, but it sparked an extensive debate in our game. What is the moral difference between a Jedi striking down an opponent in combat (say, with his lightsaber) and using Force Strike when no other means of defense is available? The rules state that using Force Strike garners an automatic Dark Side Point whenever it is used against a living thing. Is there no consideration of context or circumstance in this rule? My game group had a long debate about this, and we were unable to find a satisfactory explanation.

A: This is one of the two most common questions about Force Strike. I suppose the best philosophical argument that can be made is that the Force itself is generated by living things, so to use the Force to directly harm a living being is basically using the Force to hurt itself. Thus, you could think of it as deliberately and intentionally talking someone into hurting himself. Something like that would almost certainly earn a Dark Side Point. In contrast, using a weapon in self-defense or the defense of innocents may result in harming a living being, but the Force isn't "hurting itself" in the same way described above. (On a related note, dark side powers, even those that don't cause damage, can be thought of the same way; these powers are inherently "unhealthy" for the Force, so using them is like directly harming an innocent.)

I admit, though, that it's a gray area. Many people waive the "automatic Dark Side Point" provision in these cases and treat Force Strike the same way they would treat Move Object: When used to harm a living being, it would be a "common transgression" that usually but not always results in a Dark Side Point. Personally, I look at it this way: Would this action, performed by means other than the Force, be worthy of gaining a Force point (in other words, would it be dramatic heroism)? If so, the two offset each other. The new Force point from dramatic heroism automatically removes the Dark Side Point gained to get there.

Just thought I would throw that in

 

ah ok, dp, i haven't seen the movie, or any movie footage apart from what's in the trailer, just read the book, and I don't typically read too much into it naturally, i just take it as it looks to me, and to me it seemed that windu used sidious' power against him and was basically a conduit the lightning travelled through, i guess kinda like what yoda did against dooku in AOTC, except with windu it was more through his use of sidious' emotion behind the power, rather than just deflecting it, does that make sense?

I thought it was windu doing this that scarred the emperor's face, which he used as propaganda to ruin the jedi's reputation.

Didn't think of it as you did though, which seems cooler

 

While we're on the subject of the EP3 movie, does anyone have any guesstaments about the levels of Cin Drallig and Serra Keto from the episode 3 game? I was thinking Serra around JG 6/JWM 4 and Cin arond JG 6/JWM 8/JM 2

 

I totaly agree with the first tw thing being a problem. I'm not sure about obi wan's line.

I'm not sure what was up with palp's face. His face got worse as it was being hit by the reflected lightning, but the lightning doesn't have that effect on everyone.

I think there needs to be some adjustment to the hero's character levels.

 

Just saw it. Wonder how many Dark Side points Anakin got during the course of that movie

 

I'm not sure what was up with palp's face. His face got worse as it was being hit by the reflected lightning, but the lightning doesn't have that effect on everyone.

According to the Making of Book the "deform" face is actually how Darth Sidious looks like. His Palpatine apperance was a "mask" if you will.
Similar to how Anakin can turn his Sith eyes off/on.
Palps drops his mask when he is hit by his own lightning. Some would argue that he used the lightning as an excuse to drop his mask in order for him to gain sympathy in the senate when claiming the Jedi tried to assassinate him. And that it wasn't actually because of the lightning.

But nevertheless: His face DID NOT melt or anything.
If your still not convinced then ask yourself why it didn't happen to Yoda, Anakin, Luke or Dooku (who also got hit with his own lightning).

 

That makes a lot of sense Kazur, and is actually what I was thinking. The deformed face is his 'real' one, the Papatine face was used for his rise to power.

 

That's basicly what i thought, kazur.

 

1) Force Strike is used by Jedi Council members (specifically Obi-Wan and Yoda) against sentient, non-robotic creatures. A lot.

I didn't see this, except against Grevious. Of course, I could have missed it.

 

Yoda uses it against Sidious at the start of their duel and Obi-Wan tries to do it against Anakin.

 

I've always done GM rulings on DSPs when it comes to Force Strike. There's plenty of situations, especially when using it against an evil character, that it would be silly to automatically give a DSP. I see Yoda and Obi-Wan's use of FS legitimate and justified and in a game I wouldn't give them an automatic DSP. If a Dark Jedi were about to strike someone down with their lightsaber and you used FS against them, I wouldn't lay down a DSP. If you just wanted an edge against them in a fight and used FS to knock them into a pool of acid I'd give a DSP.

 

I have a variant on Force Strike which could be used to avoid any messy DSP entanglements:

After normal Force Strike text...

... In addition, Force Strike may be used on living targets without risk of a DSP in the following ways:

Force Stun
Force Strike can be used in the normal area of effect to act in most respects as a stun grenade. Affected characters in the area of effect make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or are stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. A successful save means the character is not affected at all. VP cost is doubled.

Force Shove
Force Strike can also be used to separate a Jedi from his opponent. When used in this fashion, the power has two effects -- it will shove the opponent backwards 10m without damaging them and it will stun the opponent for one round. A successful Reflex save (DC 20) will negate the shove and a successful Fortitude save (DC 15) will negate the stun. VP cost is the same as a normal Force Strike, but this is not area of effect and can only be used on a single target.

 

I like those ideas, dp4m.


Now that we know r2 doesn't get his memory wipped, does any one else think that he should be higher then level 7.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I totally agree that Artoo should be far higher than level 7. At least 11.

As for Force Strike, Yoda uses it quite conclusively on Palpatine's guards just before the battle. But then again, they did just move and were knocked out after they hit the wall. The strike itself appears to have done no damage. Sounds like move object to me.

As a matter of fact, look at all the times 'Force Strike' was used. TPM had it several times...and the only time it did any damage was against droids (the droids didn't get up after they were hit). AotC had it several times and again the only time it did any damage was against droids. RotS had it several times, and the only time it did damage was when the shovee hit an object. All of this sounds like Move Object against a person.

Thus you could just say that anyone who fails the will save to keep from being moved also is stunned for one round.

 

Well, think about the entire force lightning thing.
Why can't Jedi use Force lightning?
Because it manifests anger or hatred into bolts of energy. However, if the Jedi did not create the energy they may use it as no hatred was used in the Jedi's end of it.

As far as the "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." line goes. There really is no "Darkside". The only "darkside" is using the force through negative emotions or through evils motives. If a Jedi used force lightning in perfect calm (impossible as the lightning itself is materialized malace) he would not be using the "darkside" (as long as it didn't hit a living being). This is described in the NJO books. If thats what you were wondering about that line.

 

Well, think about the entire force lightning thing.
Why can't Jedi use Force lightning?
Because it manifests anger or hatred into bolts of energy. However, if the Jedi did not create the energy they may use it as no hatred was used in the Jedi's end of it.

As far as the "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." line goes. There really is no "Darkside". The only "darkside" is using the force through negative emotions or through evils motives. If a Jedi used force lightning in perfect calm (impossible as the lightning itself is materialized malace) he would not be using the "darkside" (as long as it didn't hit a living being). This is described in the NJO books. If thats what you were wondering about that line.

Not to get into it here, but you're wrong!

Thanks and have a nice day!

 

We had something similar come up just the other game. One of my players was trying to get into a room full of thugs. He asked - "The have grenades, right?" When I said yes, he said "Fine, I use Telekinsis to pull the pins on them"

I had to stop for a moment. That seemed like it was worth a Dark Side point. When I mentioned it, he said "But, running into the room and hacking them to pieces with my light saber, thats fine?"

And I had to admit he did have a point. The end result is the same - dead thugs. It was just the manner in which it happened.

In the end, he agreed with me and he ran in there and changed his action to hacking up the thugs. I've always run with the policy that if the gut instinct says "No - BAD" then run with it. If you have to sit and think if it's dark side or not for a bit, then it's probably not a light act.

 

Actually, according to the original WEG rules, it was most definitely a DSP.

Using the Force to place someone in inherent mortal danger, even if the usage ITSELF caused no damage, was worth a DSP.

WOTC has slightly more flexibility there, but it still falls fundamentally under "for defense, never for attack..."

 

For the "Only Sith deal in absolutes", The Unifying Force novel really hits it home. There is no dark or light side in the Unifying Force, only the beings in the force. They are defined by how the force serves them and how they serve the force.

I think this also ties into Palpy's face. If there is no light and no dark, then Palpy is just Palpy if he is relying on the Unifying force instead of the living force or the physical force. However if he suddenly changes his view to the living force, just like changing a lightsaber form of a force form, the effects of dark side would instantly take effect. I myself have a houserule that if you consider the force to unify all things (hence unifying fuce) you suffer no penalties for darksideness, and gain no bonuses for either side. It is almost like you remain neutral the entire time. I think that palpy revealed himself at an advantageous time in order to maintain his hold ion the galaxy.

As for Yoda, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it would be some variation of Force Light. Ii think that Yoda converted the dark-side energy directly into light-side energy and shot it back as a discharge from his system. Mace did not reflect it with the force, but merely with his lightsaber, as he would reflect a blaster shot. I'd rule that was just Deflect(Attack)