Characters Warrior Queen, Gentle Lady - NEW DISCUSSION TOPIC Is Padmé a Mary Sue?

I remember reading somewhere that she was considered a child prodigy, kind of like Anakin, only in the political/educated sense. Maybe it was in the visual dictionary for TPM, or the New Ess Guide to Characters.

 

This is from the official site's databank:

As a child, Amidala was prodigiously talented and extremely well educated. She had long been interested in public service, volunteering in the Refugee Relief Movement in her youth. Her efforts helped in the Shadda-Bi-Boran exodus. At the age of eight, she joined the Apprentice Legislature and became an Apprentice Legislator at age 11. By 14, she was elected Queen of Naboo.

Most of the eight-year-olds I know are catching bugs, playing video games and torturing their siblings.

 

This is my first post, everyone, so please don't hurt me! *is tempted to cower in the corner*

Padmé is a very interesting character; I think we can all attest to that. She's so complex? this thread could go on forever! But here's my oh-so-humble opinion:

From what I've gathered (and this might just be me), Padmé's election at 14 was not an exception, per se, but not exactly your everyday occurrence. Look at Jamillia. She wasn't fourteen in AOTC, but she wasn't a day over 25, either. And from Padmé's little chat with Anakin outside of Theed Palace in AOTC, I got the feeling that there might have been several monarchs younger than her.

Nevertheless, she must have done SOMETHING to gain the attention of the Naboo. As someone mentioned, she was an Apprentice Legislator in her pre-adolescent years. I thought I also read somewhere that she was Princess of Theed at one point or another, though the research that I've done did little to explain the duties involved with that title. Anyway, she had extensive political exposure before she was elected queen. You might want to tie that into a story leading up to her election.

I apologize if I'm being redundant; as I said, this is my first post.

Thanks for starting this post, l_n; it's nice to find a topic I'm comfortable discussing and people I'm familiar with.

 

Hmm, this discussion's getting interesting.

I agree that if you look further into NAboo's government, there really aren't that many child rulers as we think; Palpatine and Sio Bibble are both really old, Veruna's age is unknown, but he was old enough to get corupt, and Jamillia is, though young, an adult. So being princess/queen at such a young age is still a pretty remarkable thing for Padme. PAdme's described as being very compassionate, but there has to be more too it than that... compassionate kids will volenteer to help out on refugee movements, but are probably usually too scared to ever lead them.

Hmm, could desperate times (Veruna's scandal) have influence on Naboo choosing such a young monarch? After all, younger = less corrupt, at least in the public's eyes.

Eh, my brain's fried so excuse the rambling.

 

Welcome geo3, gunsraylawyer - a new place to rant about our mutually favourite character ; Hi bobilll. Nice meeting you here. Hi you! *drags nadenaberrie out of the corner*

Of course your post is not redundant. I am very interested in what you have to say. And I am VERY flattered that your very first post on these boards was to me! It's true to Padme's character is so complex. She is my favourite character in the whole saga. Won't it be splendid if this thread did go on forever?

As someone mentioned, she was an Apprentice Legislator in her pre-adolescent years. I thought I also read somewhere that she was Princess of Theed at one point or another, though the research that I've done did little to explain the duties involved with that title. Anyway, she had extensive political exposure before she was elected queen. You might want to tie that into a story leading up to her election.

I was hoping someone would bring that up. Yes, definitely the Databank gave us the impression that she already had a 'career' in politics before her nomination as Queen. I wonder what that means.

geo3, I agree with your vision of the Naboo educational system and the idea of 'catching them young.' It would explain, say, the handmaidens who were probably spotted for extraordinary physical/intellectual prowess young (I see handmaidens as the Naboo CIA) and trained to be used for Naboo Royalty.... I'd still like to know why Padme still made the definite choice to go to politics and remain in politics. If Palo is anything to go by, not everyone stays in the professional field that he/she was trained in...

 

The official site's databank as well as a fan site I looked up mentions the Princess of Theed title meant that she was mayor of Theed.

I recall an interview with Papa George around the time AOTC came out where he explains it's common for those in public service to do it while they are young and then settle into doing something else. I guess people like Sio Bibble as well as the older advisors are the exception on Naboo instead of the norm.

--MissPadme

 

Ah, thank you Miss Padme. I'd been wondering. Also, thanks for the warm welcome l_n. I really appreciate it.

I've got a question/topic that relates to Padme that seems to be the key topic of everyone's debate. I'll put it out there, but seeing as though this is l_n's post, I can take it back in a snap and retreat to my corner again (hehe) if this isn't where she wants to go at the moment.

Anyway, here it is: I'm of the firm belief that Padme is a strong, stubborn, seemingly invincible woman, at least in the first two movies. I loathe stories where she's a weepy, clingy, "Oh Anakin I love you no matter what you do, darling, and I'll take you back in a heartbeat" kind of person. Bleh! However, I do realize that she goes through a virtual hell in Episode III, but does that change her character? Does it somehow weaken her? I only ask because I'm in the middle of writing a vignette and I've become somewhat of a hypocrite (she bawls her eyes out), and I'd like to know what the experts think. And to somewhat stay on topic (lol- sorry, off on a tangent) how would her personality be different before she became a queen and later a senator, wife, mother, etc. It's an interesting thought.

 

I've got a question/topic that relates to Padme that seems to be the key topic of everyone's debate.

No problemo. Anyone should feel free to start up a new discussion. Although technically the statute of limititation has not run out on this one [one week] but we'll make a first time exception and discuss the both.

I'm of the firm belief that Padme is a strong, stubborn, seemingly invincible woman, at least in the first two movies. I loathe stories where she's a weepy, clingy, "Oh Anakin I love you no matter what you do, darling, and I'll take you back in a heartbeat" kind of person. Bleh! However, I do realize that she goes through a virtual hell in Episode III, but does that change her character? Does it somehow weaken her? I only ask because I'm in the middle of writing a vignette and I've become somewhat of a hypocrite (she bawls her eyes out), and I'd like to know what the experts think.

That's a toughie. I'm no expert but I'll try my hand at this one.

Well, it certainly depends on one's definition of Strength. I see Padme as strong but not cold. That is she can be human and vulnerable at times. We haven't seen that side of her character much - the only time we see her anytime near tears is when Corde dies at the start of AotC - and she kept her composure over that incident pretty well after that. At the same time, she showed a lot of compassion towards Anakin all through out the film, particularly in the 'Confession' scene.... I like to see Padme as strong, but very, very human and extremely compassionate. She seems to - to put it earthslangishly - have time for people that most others won't be bothered about. It's a mark of her character that she was the first to be fast friends with Jar Jar Binks in TPM.

Does Episode 3 change her character? I think it disillusions her a great deal - about the system that she has believed in for so long and dedicated most of her life to; she'll suffer disillusionment from Palpatine - one of her oldest friends/allies; the Jedi; and the greatest would be her own husband. Will it make her weaker? I hope not. I want to see Padme be the cinematic embodiment of the saying 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going.' Would she cry? Definitely. But in private. Into her pillow. Maybe to her husband - but not if she can help it. She'd be too busy for tears.

Long answer. Hope it helped! I'd like others to add to this as well.

 

---I do realize that she goes through a virtual hell in Episode III, but does that change her character? Does it somehow weaken her?---

She's tough but she tends to be idealistic as well. Episode 3 will certainly shatter her world but I don't think it will break *her*.

---Would she cry? Definitely. But in private. Into her pillow. Maybe to her husband - but not if she can help it. She'd be too busy for tears. ---

Yes, most likely. She'll go down fighting, not that I watch spoilers but I think that from what I know of her character, that's how it's going to end.

 

Padmé is definitely strong without being cold and crying doesn't make her weak. She's going to have to deal with the awfulness of her situation and what it means. I can't imagine anyone normal or sympathetic not having it affect you in any way.

--MissPadme

 

Hello... This thread really looks interesting... I agree that it's terribly difficult to get a good characterization of Padmé. She's so unreadable in the films and lots of fanfics tend to make a caricature of her. Whether she's too weepy or she's too cold. (Usually she's whiny though... )
So I do think that ROTS will show her more open, more compassionate. But she will still be strong IMO. That's why I hate fics that tend to show her desperate and accepting Anakin's turn, her twins separated, etc very easily.
BTW l_n there's another instance in AOTC when she's near tears. Her confession to Anakin. Frankly this is the only time when we got glimpse into her inner thoughts. "(...) dying a little bit each day" is pretty strong IMO and I was surprised to see her so vulnerable in that instant.

But... going back to the topic I can't see why Padmé would go into politics for power. I agree that she must have seen Winama and Ruwee like role models. Thinking back to when I was 12 I remember wanting to change things (later on for me of course...). This is possible and I do think she was probably very mature but also idealistic somehow. And since they have the possibility in this world to participate early I can see why she got into this so young.
But I've always been wondering one thing about her: How much of an impact did her parents have on her career? Did they encourage her? Is it possible that Padmé would begin that path for her parents to be proud of her? Who knows? There's so little about her family... I'm just curious as to how Padmé's character was built...

Wow. My longest post ever.

 

Well, the AOTC novelization shows that Padme's parents at least played a big part in her marriage to Anakin... as to her entrance to politics, well, her parents were both civil servants I think, so it wouldn't be hard to imagine that they did encourage her. I believe there's a quote in the novelization where Ruwee mentions how he feels privilaged, not obliged, to live in a fruitful world, and that's why he's a public servant. This might have something to do w/ Padme's choice as well.

 

Hi padlei! Nice to see you here!

BTW l_n there's another instance in AOTC when she's near tears. Her confession to Anakin. Frankly this is the only time when we got glimpse into her inner thoughts. "(...) dying a little bit each day" is pretty strong IMO and I was surprised to see her so vulnerable in that instant.

::gasps:: Can't believe I forgot about that one!

But I've always been wondering one thing about her: How much of an impact did her parents have on her career? Did they encourage her? Is it possible that Padmé would begin that path for her parents to be proud of her? Who knows? There's so little about her family... I'm just curious as to how Padmé's character was built...


So am I! Like bobilll, I think that Padme takes after Ruwee in the direction of civil service and her desire to serve. Although in AotC, her mother seemed to be more discouraging, I think she was also proud of Padme and encouraged her in politics - at least in the beginning.

 

Her family really is an interesting topic. We know nearly nothing about them, except what we've seen in the novel and the deleted scenes from AOTC. I agree with bobilll; Ruwee seems to have influenced his daughter a great deal. Her interest in public service had to come from somewhere, and he was involved with the Refugee Relief Movement, which Padme later joined. I suppose that's a place to start. For Sola and Jobal, though, there's very little evidence to suggest that they influenced her decision to go into politics; in AOTC they both hinted that she should quit and "get a life." However, both parents probably supported Padme in the beginning, before they knew how far it would really go...

 

For Sola and Jobal, though, there's very little evidence to suggest that they influenced her decision to go into politics; in AOTC they both hinted that she should quit and "get a life." However, both parents probably supported Padme in the beginning, before they knew how far it would really go...

I wonder how it must have been for the two sisters growing up together and following such different paths in life - Padme in a political career and Sola a more dometic lifestyle?

 

I don't think she'll be weak per se, but think of her facing anakin's Turning, his apparent death, perhaps the knowledge that death would have been merciful, seeing everything she's fought for go down in flames, having to give up her children (and we don't even know if she'll live long enough to make that decision), etc. Wouldn't you be a little...affected?

 

I wonder how it must have been for the two sisters growing up together and following such different paths in life - Padme in a political career and Sola a more dometic lifestyle?

That's an interesting thought. Does anyone know what Sola does for a living, if anything? Or guesses, if Uncle Georgie didn't give us any details?

 

I have no idea. I always got the impression Sola was a stay-home mommy.

--MissPadme

 

I don't think she'll be weak per se, but think of her facing anakin's Turning, his apparent death, perhaps the knowledge that death would have been merciful, seeing everything she's fought for go down in flames, having to give up her children (and we don't even know if she'll live long enough to make that decision), etc. Wouldn't you be a little...affected?

Good point, Ish. To say that she's be completely whole and strong after that would be making her inhuman. I just think she's proactive enough to want to fight against what's happening to her world, even though she's suffering.

nadenaberrie:

Does anyone know what Sola does for a living, if anything?

Like MissPadme, I've always seen her as a stay-home mommy. She gave me the impression from AotC as a woman who had too much time on her hands!

---

It's been two weeks and it's time for a new discussion topic. :D In order not to change the flow of discussion too abruptly, I am officially adopting [b]nadenaberrie[/b]'s :) penetrating question as this fortnight's discussion topic:

[i][b][color=purple]
How do you think the events of Episode 3 - Anakin turning, being seperated from her children, the Republic transformed to a dictatorship - will change Padme's character? Will they break her?
[/color][/b][/i]

 

And be careful with what you say, too. Some of us are trying to stay spoiler-free until Episode 3.

 

Of course. Spoilers not allowed by the way. We can just speculate on the general info...

 

I think I can safely say that Padme *may* not be alive at the end of Episode 3??? Some people might say that she commits suicide because she cannot cope with her grief? This is not a spoiler, just an option that was discussed after Episode 1, why I don't know! I don't think she kills herself. I think she either dies in childbirth or is killed. And I think she dies fighting - spiritually or physically.

 

I think that, while suicide is improbable in terms of the general character Lucas has created, I think that the events of ep3 such as having to lose everything will drive her to desperate acts. She may do insensible things to try and bring her husband back, may turn against obi-wan for a time (I think this is a strong possibility because he's been so involved in their lives), that if she does die, it will be because she is reckless one time too many or Anakin is too cruel to accept her attempts at saving him.

In one fic, I have Vader stalk her just after she leaves Luke with the Larses and because she's cornered, she takes up arms. The only sidearm she has with her is Anakin's lightsaber and she fights him with it and he kills her with Vader's lightsaber.

 

Padme vs. Vader sounds like an interesting possibility! I'd like to read that story but the only thing is that it sounds, dunno *wrong* to have Vader kill Padme and then spare Luke twenty years later...
What about Padme killing herself to *turn* Anakin back? Maybe if she feels if she can *shock* him into his senses he will turn back?

 

I think if he killed Padme, the guilt of it from the side of him that's still vaguely anakin skywalker would be desperate to redeem his position, so sparing luke would be entirely possible.