PT Was Anakin insane by the time he fought Obi-Wan

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth Cyn, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. Darth Punk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 5
    Was Anakin insane by the time he fought Obi Wan? Undoubtedly. When I look at what might have been the initial point where Anakin first became a ship going a few degrees off course, I'd also say undoubtedly, the slaughter on Tatooine was that point. I'm not sure how the legal system there works, but if a lawless tribe kidnap and torture your mother, and she dies in your arms during rescue, and as a Jedi knight who has seen plenty of combat, and who could arguably make a case to be suffering some form of PTSD, I'd say he has an argument for saying at that point in time he suffered a form of temporary insanity.
    HeadStrong97 likes this.
  2. The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    Well, that kind of destroys the point of the films, which is that Anakin is responsible for his actions and therefore must be redeemed if he is to be a good man again. If he suffered a mental break from reality, he wouldn't need to be redeemed, he'd need to be medicated.

    The films went out of their way more than once to show that, yes, Anakin knew he was doing wrong. He wasn't insane. He chose to commit evil, for his own misguided reasons.
    rdhight likes this.
  3. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    I agree.
  4. Darth Punk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 5
    If films corralled their viewer into only one way of seeing, wouldn't that kind of destroy the point of forums?

    Feel we may be at the agree to disagree point of this exchange - see you around
  5. Dameron Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 4

    This brings up an out-of-universe issue for me. You could argue that most action, sci-fi, and fantasy characters have PTSD or some other mental illness, but to me that destroys the fun of watching the movie. One or two to a film is fine (Hi, Mr. Blond!) but for the most part, I don't want to see a bunch of mentally destroyed wrecks lashing out in their madness. In movies, I primarily want to see people who are responsible for their actions and have a decent handle on reality. Movies like Predator or the Abyss have scenes where characters mentally unravel, but there the filmmakers give us clear indications that they've snapped in-universe, not just as an after-the-fact fan explanation.

    You could probably diagnose half the galaxy with one mental illness or another, but for me, it ruins the fun of watching the characters to imagine they don't know what they're doing. I don't like to consider a character crazy unless the movie indicates specifically that something is mentally wrong with that character. Not angry, not tired of war, not self-important or under extreme pressure, but really crazy.

    As you said, agree to disagree if necessary, and no hard feelings, I hope.
  6. The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    You can see the films whatever way you want. I'm not stopping you. I'm just pointing out that there are scenes in the movie that were included for no other purpose than to show that Anakin knew the things he was doing were evil. I'm not sure how you can explain those scenes otherwise.
  7. Darth Punk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 5
    Never, all the best
  8. HeadStrong97 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Now I'm confused.. The scene in RoTS where Anakin is shown crying- is that out of insanity or guilt?
  9. Darth Cyn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 2
    First, I'm glad to see my thread has so many replies, second, my question wasn't whether or not Anakin could be held accountable for his actions, as he was undoubtedly sane when he amputee Mace's arm and when he pledged allegiance to Palpatine. I just meant he seemed really off directly before and during his fight with Obi-Wan.
  10. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    From the moment Padme confronted him with his actions at the Temple and Obi-Wan made his presence known on Mustafar, Anakin went into a state of anger.

    Unless you want to describe anger or rage as a form of insanity.
  11. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Guilt. Anakin felt guilty for losing control when he killed the Tusken Raiders, which is why he's angry and crying in front of Padme. When he's done killing all the Jed in the Temple and the Confederacy leadership on Mustafar, he's crying again because he didn't really want to do that. He doesn't want to be a Sith Lord, but he has to be one now. The minute he betrayed Mace, he knew that if he didn't keep going, the Jedi would kill him and Palpatine and Padme would still die. So as he is standing there, he is trying to justify his actions internally while at the same time, he's also questioning himself. He only stops questioning himself when he's in the suit and doesn't again until his fight with Luke, when his son senses the conflict within him.


    If so, we're all in a world of ****. A lot of people get angry in the world. A lot.
  12. Darth Cyn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2014
    star 2
    I mean, even the way he spoke to Padme prior to choking her sounded pretty psychotic, that along with his facial expressions.
  13. The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    Since when is crying a shorthand for insanity rather than sadness? Anakin is crying in that scene because he's in grief over who he's become and what he's done.

    I'm genuinely curious to know your stance on the seriously mentally ill in real life. Do you think they should be held accountable for any actions committed while in the throes of insanity?
    Last edited by The_Phantom_Calamari, Apr 20, 2014
  14. HeadStrong97 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2014
    No.. Not really...
  15. EternalHero Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2014
    star 3
    This is an interesting question. I think Anakin had "dissociated" by that point and split off into an "alternate" Anakin, one bent on self preservation, by that point. So I would say that he was not a person in control of his own psyche.
  16. DRush76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Oh God! Still trying to make Anakin's turn to evil as something odd or rare.
  17. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    You're right. It's not rare at all. I run into wife-stranglers and child murderers every single day. Those guys are so normal that they don't even make the news anymore.
    CT-867-5309 and Iron_lord like this.
  18. The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4

    Then why do you think the movies insist that Vader had to be redeemed? Redemption is for the morally misguided, not for the mentally ill. The truly mentally ill don't need to be redeemed because any actions undertaken as a result of their illness don't reflect in any way on their true character.
  19. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 4
    I have to agree, DRush76. It's like they're saying, "Oh, I could never turn evil. No, no that's just for the rare oddball people. I am, and will always be, good."

    Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness showed us exactly the opposite. We can all turn to some form of evil if all the right buttons are pressed. We may not all be capable of doing what Anakin did, but even the good guys can become evil/morally misguided just by justifying to themselves that whatever evil they're doing now will be for the greater good in the future. Even if that evil is just being a racist, xenophobic bigot.
  20. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    I hate racist, xenophobic, and I'll add sexist and homophobic bigots as much as anyone, but if you all are putting bigotry on the same level of evil as murdering children who are asking you for help or choking your pregnant wife, I don't know what to tell you.

    No, we are not all capable of doing what Anakin did, nor would we all be willing no matter the circumstance, and that is the point.
    Arawn_Fenn and Valairy Scot like this.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    No one is denying what Anakin did was wrong. What is in question was his sanity, which is that he wasn't insane. He was just controlled by the very power he sought to wield and as Lucas said, the dark side had controlled him. That the Sith who let their emotions go unchecked, will wind up being destroyed by it. In this case, Anakin is burnt and put in the suit.
  22. markdeez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2005
    star 3
    Insane? No. He was clearly in control of his actions. Highly conflicted? Absolutely. He was torn between ideals.
  23. SkywalkerJedi02 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2013
    star 1
    No just disillusioned


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  24. thejeditraitor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 6
    you don't have to be insane to do horrible things. being in a rage or feeling hateful aren't being insane. that's one of the ways people make themselves feel better when something horrible happens. they just assume the person is crazy because that's an easier answer. sometimes it's true but a lot of times it's not.
  25. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 5
    "Once you start down the path of the dark side forever will it dominate your destiny." — Master Yoda

    I've been saying this for decades, and I will continue to say it for many more...hopefully. ;)

    Going by all the films now, it clearly means more than people want to believe. I mean, how else do you explain someone betraying and murdering their friends so easily.

    Well, anyway...the use of the dark side is like an addicting and consuming power that quickly and completely takes over its victims mind, which eventually leads to an uncontrollable rage and murderous nature. Thus making its wielder borderline insane. At least it does in the beginning, that is.
    HeadStrong97 likes this.
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