Was Anakin really necessary?

Now hold your horses everybody ...

Palps knowing "Lord Vader is in danger" was one Sith using force sensitivity to 'connect' with another.

We cannot be sure that Palps would predict everything - especially a non-force Wedge and GoldLeader about to blow up his battle station.

All we get is uber-confidence from Palps about his safety and security. The weight of the evidence seems to suggest that he would have been Tarkin, part 2.

EDIT: The point is of course - that the throne room shannanigans between our 3 favorite guys was indeed cool and dramatic, but highly irrelevant since the Rebel/Calamari Navy blew up DS2 and won a strategic victory in the Battle of Endor - the "Gettysburg" of the Empire.

 

He'd be able to detect the general chaos which surrounded Luke's escape.

Also, we've seen examples of Force precog which did not involve connecting with another user.

 

In Star Wars - Vader had no idea, no clue, no sense that Solo was bearing down on him and open fire on his TIE.

In TPM - Darth Maul had no idea that he was gonna be sliced up.

Those are two examples of Sith not knowing of their own eminent demise.

And of course, Palp's composure was so confident that even if he killed Vader and Luke, I think he would have gotten back in the Lazy-Boy, turned around, and watched the proceedings.

EDIT:

It actually seems a common theme of Sith to be dumbfounded by their demise.

Dooku's perplexion on his knees, Maul's "wtf" look to Kenobi, Vader's "WHAT?" ... Palps would have followed this trend - the last millisecond of his life he probably might have uttered a "damn" in a great Ian voice.

 

I disagree. I think he would have realized he had to get out of there.

 

All of the Sith apprentices seemed somewhat blinded by their belief in their own infallibility. Dooku didn't see his end coming too well either did he? Sidious on the other hand, seemed pretty good at being one step ahead of the game, or at least having contingency plans.

 

If not through the Force, Palpatine could have been made aware of the imminent danger due to the physical chaos in the battle station.

 

If not through the Force, Palpatine could have been made aware of the imminent danger due to the physical chaos in the battle station.

Which is only happening elsewhere on that battle station, which he would only have gotten to if he already knew to split.

OFFICER: We've analyzed their attack, Sir, and there is a danger. Should I have your ship standing by?
TARKIN: Evacute? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.

OFFICER: We've analyzed their attack, Sir, and there is a danger. Should I have your ship standing by?
EMPEROR: You're right! I gotta get the #*^( outta here!

 

If you are refering to the chaos seen in the scene with Luke and Vader, when Vader dies.
Two things, the MF had already made it's way inside the station and was only minutes away from blowing the main reactor. Second, Luke and Vader were AT the shuttle and Luke barely made it out in time.
Also there were no other people in Palpatines chambers, he'd sent the guards away.

So IF Palpatine only found out about the danger at that time then there is a good chance he would not have time to get to the shuttle.

Regards
Nordom

 

The Emperor's instincts are better than Tarkin's, and he's faster than Luke dragging Vader.

 

The Emperor's instincts are better than Tarkin's,

That explains Luke being able to get on Endor without him noticing, and Han being able to so easily dupe his "best troops" to destroy the shield generator that he had so much confidence in.

and he's faster than Luke dragging Vader.

He hasn't moved like that in 20 years. Nobody onboard but Luke survived that Death Star explosion.

 

That is due more to his "overconfidence being his weakness" than anything else. There's nothing there to say that Tarkin is therefore on equal footing with Palpatine as far as anything like instincts, smarts, or tendencies toward self-preservation go.

Because Palpatine was already dead, because Anakin/Vader killed him.

 

Not even Palpatine's own Imperials were fast enough to get off. Just Luke. So there is no way to say he could have gotten out, or that he would have realized the danger to his own life--in the event, he clearly didn't. While he may at least have attempted to save his own hyde if he realized the danger, that overconfidence has been his defining feature for decades. With the exception of the danger Vader faced in his duel on Mustafar, acknowledging the weaknesses or fallibility of his plans is not in his nature.

 

No one ever said Palpatine was omniscient. By instincts I meant the fact that Tarkin foolishly hung around even after he was warned of the danger.

Imperials are shown running around, not encumbered by weighty Sith lords, while Luke is dragging Vader. That means they were fast enough. We don't know that no Imperials got off.

He has the dark side of the Force. Yoda was over 800 years older and moved pretty quickly at times during the PT.

 

I think that due to the mythological aspects there had to be a dark character redeeming and sacrificing himself. I could be wrong about that, it's been awhile since I read either Hero With a Thousand Faces or The Power of Myth.

So unless Palpatine was going to redeem himself and help Luke off the Death Star, I think Anakin was necessary.

Or...does anyone think that Luke could have kicked Palp's arse without Vader around? I'm not trying to pick on Luke, but I don't know that anyone survived Force lightning without being saved by someone else.

 

Balance to the Force wasn't brought about by Palpatine's death, but by Anakin's redemption. Empires rise and fall, the Sith rise and fall. Even Palpatine's spirit survived and took over his clone bodies. The key was the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. If Anakin had chosen darkness, the balance would have been restored with Darkness ultimately in victory. Anakin chose light, the balance will now be restored with Light ultimately in victory. Anakin was the avatar of the Force, the path he chose would be the path the galaxy would follow.

 

I agree. There is no way Palpatine was going to be redeemed, and there is no way Luke could have defeated Palpatine by himself. Luke definitely prompted Anakin/Vader into taking action, but without Anakin/Vader doing that Luke would have been dead.

According to the prophecy of the chosen one, which Anakin did fulfill when he was redeemed, bringing balance to the Force was brought about through the elimination of the Sith... meaning Palpatine's death in conjunction with the "death" of Vader when Anakin returned (followed by Anakin's literal death). So Luke's love for his father led to Anakin's return, which in turn led to Anakin's redemption with Palpatine's death at Anakin's hands... which brought balance to the Force.

 

According to the prophecy of the chosen one, which Anakin did fulfill when he was redeemed, bringing balance to the Force was brought about through the elimination of the Sith... meaning Palpatine's death in conjunction with the "death" of Vader when Anakin returned (followed by Anakin's literal death). So Luke's love for his father led to Anakin's return, which in turn led to Anakin's redemption with Palpatine's death at Anakin's hands... which brought balance to the Force.[/quote]


Goldleader and Wedge would have brought balance -- even if Luke was absent or had been killed.

EDIT: Ewoks would be celebrating, Empire would be on the run, etc. Yoda, Luke, and Ben would be in Jedi Heaven laughing it up because the Empire/Sith were over -

Roll the credits to ROTJ.

 

[image=http://www.swpm.ic.cz/lambda.jpg]

 

o rly? That's why their fatal flaw was the same.

 

Many of the posters here basically want to say that Palps was "force invincible" and only Vader could kill him.

But as clearly laid out in prior posts, it is Star Wars tradition/protocol for the evil guy to be surprised and shocked by his demise. Vader and Tarkin in SW, Maul in TPM, Dooku in ROTS, etc.

Palps was a gonner with or without the Luke & Vader business. Big overconfident evil boss in a lazy chair, was that man.