PT Was Anakin Skywalker a "bad" Jedi?

The issue with blame is always difficult because, in the end, everyone is responsible for his or her choices. Anakin wasn't forced to make the choices he did; he had plenty of alternatives, despite how painful he found them.

What we can examine, though, is why a person made the choice they did, and what factors might have played into that. If something changed, would that have made a difference? I think most of us would agree, for example, that Palpatine played an enormous role in fostering Anakin's conversion to the Dark Side. Had he never met Palpatine, I think it's highly likely he would have never turned.

In regards to the Jedi, I think here we see an example of how culpability plays out. It's not the Jedi's fault that Anakin turned, but I think the way they treated him contributed to making Anakin less "culpable" (for lack of a better word) than he otherwise would have been. The Jedi don't take the blame for Anakin's fall, but I think the distrust engendered between them and Anakin closed off an avenue that needed to stay open. It made it easier for Palpatine to convince Anakin to turn.

Or, put more simply, the Jedi's choices contributed to Anakin's reduced ability to make a good choice.

Of course, that argument trails backward as well -- the Jedi couldn't properly adapt to Anakin's unique situation because of the way and the system many of them had been brought up in.

 

Anakin was the chosen one, so why did the Jedi not sense him earlier?

 

Well Qui-Gon explained it in TPM. "Had he been born in the Republic, we would have identified him early"

 

Saying that the Jedi failed Anakin doesn't mean that I hold them responsible. Clearly, the Order had nothing to do with the Tusken slaughter.

My points were: "the Jedi could've been a little kinder at first" and "not allowing things to fester", but it sure didn't come out that way.

 

Anakin was not a bad Jedi, no. Extremely flawed and mis-led? Yes. We knew from the beginning that Anakin and Luke were presented with similar paths, and that where Luke made the right decisions, Anakin would make all of the wrong ones.

 

Anakin was a fool, not an idiot. He knew perfectly well what he was doing in ROTS. He knew all too well that Palpatine's promise might be a lie. Driven as he was by greed, though, he was willing to follow the small beacon of hope that the promise presented. He was desperate to keep Padmé in his life and Palpatine was the only one who had offered to help him. During the course of the movie, he drifts away from the Jedi and by the time Palpatine reveals himself as a Sith, Anakin is in no man's land. He could go either way at that point, so he chooses the side that to him represents possible hope.
It's a fool's hope, but hope nontheless.

To answer the original question: If you ask me, Anakin was an excellent mechanic, an outstanding pilot and a cunning warrior. He was a passionate believer in justice who watched out for his friends and came down on his enemies with a vengeance. He was an extremely talented and powerful Force user, tainted by greed which for years was nourished by Palpatine under the very noses of the Jedi, who failed to adapt to the situation and give Anakin the help he needed.
Bad Jedi? I think I'd rather say that he was a failed Jedi - though he seemed to have done just fine between AOTC and ROTS.





- You have failed me for the last time, Admiral.
- Come on. When have I ever let you down?
/LM

 

Greetings everyone, this is my first post. Now that is out the way, I believe the Jedi failed Anakin.

1. In the PTM, Yoda saw so much danger in his training, so instead of training Anakin himself or assigning him to another more experienced Jedi he left his training to a Padawan who just killed a Sith apprentice. I believe the only reason that the council allowed Obi-wan to train Anakin, the CHOSEN ONE, was to accelerate Obi-wan's ability to join the council. If you recall in TPM, Obi-wan was always quoting Yoda and telling the techniques that he should use instead of the way Qui-gon was training him. Obi-won also mentioned that Qui-gon would have been on the council if he played by the Jedi's rules which refused. This shows me that Obi-wan always wanted to be on the council and Yoda ensured that he had an accelerated path.

2. AOTC in the beginning when Anakin and Obi-wan were talking in the apartments and Anakin mentioned about his dreams about his mother, Obi-wan who is suppose to be like his mentor, friend and father (as described by Anakin later in the movie) said nothing. All he did was sit there and looked uncomfortable, then once Anakin changed the subject then he decided to become the great jedi mentor again sprouting off the lessons he learned at the feet of Mace and Yoda. Obi-wan training was continued by those two. I think Obi-wan was being groomed to take over Mace's position because eventually the darkness that Mace dabbled with would catch up with him.

3. Every time Anakin reached out for help he received the standard Jedi lines. He was never treated like a regular person or jedi. He was always considered as the chosen one never as Anakin the padawan unless he was being berated.

4. Yoda felt his pain when Anakin murdered the sandpeople but none of the jedi addressed it with him.

5. Also why is a padawan dealing directly with the chancellor of the republic?

6. It also was well established that Anakin was very faithful to his friends and ruthless to his enemies. So when the jedi asked him to spy on Palpatine he lost all respect for them, especial in with the contempt in which they treated him. Why does Mace mistrust him so when all Anakin ever did was follow the orders given to him by Obi-wan and the council.

my two cents, your thoughts?

 

when all of his traits are lined up it's hard to deny he was a bad Jedi, on the other hand he had the Number One Sith Lord of all time whispering in his ear in secret from the time he was 10.

 

He was a bad Jedi, but the fact wasn't entirely his own fault.

 

Any attachment issues? How about murdering dozens of people?

 

Perhaps he was a bad Jedi. But Anakin's inability to be a "good" Jedi was never problem . . . at least for me. His problem was that he failed to be true to himself. He never learned to travel his own path with any semblance of balance.

 

THIS.

 

My thoughts? Sounds like an absurd conspiracy theory.

1) Yeah, they allowed Obi-Wan to train Anakin in order to put Obi-Wan on the fast track. Sounds legit. Didn't have anything to do with Qui-Gon's dying wish.

2) As af1983 said, he said "dreams pass in time", because he didn't know what else to say. He didn't know how to handle it. Once Anakin changed the subject to something Obi-Wan knew about, of course he had something to say. I like how you mentioned the lessons he learned at the feet of Mace, then claim that Obi-Wan was being groomed to replace Mace because the Council knew he was dabbling with darkness. Absurd.

3) Of course he received standard Jedi lines, they're standard. Despite receiving the standard Jedi lines, apparently Anakin was never treated like a Jedi. Amazing.

4) How do you know? I'd say Yoda addressed it in ROTS during their little chat that Anakin blew off.

5) Because the Chancellor requested it. Not really a crime. Not the best judgment, they could have kept them apart.

6) All Anakin ever did was follow orders? What movies did you watch? Besides that, Mace distrusted Anakin because Anakin was an emotional train wreck and Mace could sense it. "There is much fear in you that clouds your judgment." Plus Anakin's outburst at the Council meeting earlier. Anakin was anything but in control of himself, and that's not a person to trust.

Your first post was a doozy. Welcome to the Jedi Council Forums.

 

It's addressed in TCW: Wild Space.

Yoda suspects something's happened to Shmi from Anakin's emotions and his trip to Tatooine- he has Obi-Wan ask- Obi-Wan finds out from Padme that Shmi died but no more than that, and from Anakin that Anakin blames Obi-Wan somewhat for not listening when he had dreams of Shmi in danger.

 

Indeed. The Clone Wars comics ("Enemy Lines") have "Tusken Jedi" Hett find out, when Anakin attacks him, ranting about what he'd done.

He reveals he's not a Tusken, but a human adopted into their tribe, who chooses to wear their mask.

As Hett puts it:

"Your mother's death, the slaughter that followed -- these are obviously something you did not tell your master. You could not have told any other Jedi -- otherwise you would have already faced disgrace. And now you have told me. If we are to survive, if we are to be of assistance to our fellow Jedi, we must work together. I don't think it is possible, so long as you see me as a Tusken instead of a Jedi. If that is so, then I must peel my skin and no longer be a Tusken. If I stand before you, naked in my own face, will you see me as I am? Will you understand?"

He also chooses not to tell what he's found out:

"Your secret is your burden to bear. Had I told Master Ki-Adi-Mundi, I would have relieved you of it. I will not do that. I carry my own burdens."

and warns Anakin of what it may do to him:

"Your secret will eat at you as a Gouka Dragon gnaws through a planet's crust. It will consume you unless you summon the courage to face the repercussions of what you have done. You must first accept that what you did was wrong. And you haven't done that yet. Tuskens are animals to you, aren't they? In your heart, you believe that they deserved to die. Perhaps they did. But did you have the right to kill them? Would you do it again?"

Anakin's answer, after he departs, is

"Yes."

 

Anakin was a poor Jedi in many respects (he was also a great one in others) but so was Qui-Gon if you're going strictly by the book. Anakin's difficulty obeying the Jedi code was not predominantly his own fault. He was brought up outside the order. Obi-Wan's training was by-the-book and it caused conflict.

Anakin could never be a normal Jedi. It was never his destiny. The Jedi's (and Obi-Wan's) biggest mistake was believing he should be. Essentially, with him, they wanted to have their cake and eat it. It backfired.

Ultimately, the difference between Obi-Wan and Luke was that Luke understood and empathised with his Father in a way that Obi-Wan could not. Obi-Wan was too much the perfect, by-the-book Jedi to have any such capabilities.

 

^ I largely agree with what you said, but remember, Obi-Wan was one of the Jedi betrayed by the Clones. He saw the dead Jedi in the Temple and no doubt felt a huge hole in the Force. He lost everything important to him, not the least of which was his adult knighted padawan. He was one of the victims of the purge - of course he thought Anakin was past saving.

Luke had no such personal, tragic connections to Anakin. He yearned for "a" (his) father, and when he found him, just could not believe his dad was so totally lost.

Comparing Obi-Wan and Luke's feelings about Vader during ANH is not really valid (IMHO) for many, many pyschological reasons.

 

I'm not saying Obi-Wan's feelings weren't justified at all. But they were also influenced by his training as much as his experiences.

 

Anakin was damaged from being a slave, I think that might have been a contributing factor to him disobeying the rules... He had never had freedom and his slavery was hardly a nice thing. All he had was his mother who he was taken from... His reactions to the Jedi Order's rules might have been influenced by the fact he may have felt restricted, still a slave in some respects... unable to do what he wanted. Anakin was never truly free until he died.

 

I think the answer has to be "yes" in terms of his mindset. Although powerful, he was very reckless, emotional, and had little self-control. Obviously he had some baggage from his days on Tatooine and was slowly seduced by Palpatine for a number of years after that, so he had some factors working against him that other Jedi didn't have to deal with and maybe many others would have had the same instability had they been subjected to the same influences. Who knows? But from AOTC on it's clear that Anakin might act impulsively at any moment and do something stupid. But even still, turning evil at the snap of a finger in Palp's office was ridiculous.

 

Yeah. But one way or the other, pretty much all the Jedi in the prequels were bad or did bad in the long run. The council saying, "dokay, we'll let a young not-quite-Jedi train a little kid that we all had a bad feeling about. Why not?" Yoda and Mace Windu's hypocrisy (we're not here to fight a war for the Republic... ok yeah we're here to run the war for the Republic.) I might even give Anakin credit for knowing that what he was doing was wrong, and that the Jedi Council was usually wrong too.

 

In fairness, I think it was a little more complex than that.