At what point is Anakin not cocksure and confident in combat? "I'm taking him now!" "I am a slow learner" "My powers have doubled since we last met, Count" But I think we're just looking at different things. Again, this is not what I said, but pointing that out seems futile. However, not many of us turn to mass murder in an attempt to prevent people from dying. It seems like you're saying only feelings matter, not actions. I thought I was clear enough... The common man is a sheep, a zombie, imo. He goes to work every day and does what he is told. So does Obi-Wan. Anakin does anything but what he is told. He tries to "make things the way he wants them to be" for "his new Empire". The common man doesn't do this. Common men don't overthrow Emperors, they don't rule the galaxy. How many people really have an impact on the world around them? How many even try? The everyman is one of the masses. I don't see galactic ambition as an everyman quality. The everyman isn't very ambitious at all, imo. By his personality, his behavior, Obi-Wan can be seen as one of the masses, only one who finds himself tied to the Chosen One. Take away his connection to the Chosen One and the extraordinary circumstances surrounding him and he's just another PT Jedi (relatively speaking, he'd probably still kick his share of ass), one of the masses walking straight toward Order 66 without even knowing it. This is what I see. I see Anakin as a potentially truly great man capable of truly great and memorable things, and Obi-Wan as more pedestrian and forgettable in comparison. Anakin is part divine, Obi-Wan is merely mortal. This may not matter to you, but it does to me. Anakin's personality and behavior would never blend in, he'd always be extraordinary in one way or another. Anakin would always stand out. When I think of an everyman, I don't think of someone special, someone who gets noticed. That's just my view. YMMV. Just as John McClane takes out an entire team of terrorists. Just as Chief Brody kills the shark. And how does Obi-Wan beat Anakin? Anakin basically beats himself. Maul's gloating gives Obi-Wan the win. Obi-Wan is the hard working, blue collar underdog. That's an everyman. It doesn't matter that he wins. -shrugs- See it how you want. Of the PT Jedi who are of any note, Obi-Wan is low on the pole. He's lower than Yoda, Mace and Anakin, but above Qui-Gon (in combat). It doesn't matter that Anakin doesn't fully realize his potential, just having that potential is enough to disqualify him for me. Opinions vary. Gods are actually portrayed with a great deal of humanity, that's the comparison I was trying to make. Okay, way to have a discussion. Anakin doesn't go on mass murder sprees? The point I keep trying to make, that you keep ignoring, is that mass murder is extremely uncommon, regardless of circumstances. People get murdered all the time, it rarely results in revenge mass murder sprees by their loved ones, even when they have the opportunity. People are always afraid that their loved ones are going to die, it rarely results in genocide in some crazy attempt to cheat death. These things are not the actions of an everyman, not even close. How dismissive. What I'm telling you is that it doesn't matter how I would feel. Of course I would feel enraged and vengeful. Again, it's not the feelings, it's the action. Yeah, it's been done to death, and I'm of the opinion that Anakin committed mass murder. The first (and maybe a few more) kill was manslaughter, but the entire tribe? Nope, you're expected to stop at some point. Besides the Tusken incident, we have the attack on the Temple. No heat of the moment there, that's just straight premeditated genocide. Most people don't respond to anything with mass murder. This is empirical. If you want to associate mass murder and cultural genocide with the everyman, go ahead. Finally, off the everyman and back on topic. I'm not even sure what you're going for here... but yes, when Luke did it, it was bad. It was bad when Anakin did it. Both are examples of bad Jedi behavior. So what? Neither example by itself enough to claim either is a bad Jedi, but Anakin has a ton of other evidence against him, while Luke does not. Luke has some, but far more good than bad, and no indefinite turn to the dark side, as Anakin did. I can't agree with this. First, I'm not sure what the Tuskens have to do with this. Second, you're playing hypotheticals, when Anakin decapitated a defenseless Dooku, and Luke threw away his lightsaber. Secondly, Maul wasn't defenseless, and Obi-Wan didn't use the dark side to kill or defeat him. Obi-Wan, when hanging from the ledge, took a cleansing breath and calmed himself. Would Obi-Wan have killed a defenseless Maul? I doubt it. Regardless, it's an irrelevant hypothetical being compared to things that actually happened. What does any of this have to do with anything? What is the point? The bottom line is, using the dark side is bad and that's all I've said. You even agreed with this. It doesn't matter who else has done it. Obi-Wan and Luke are mostly irrelevant, as this thread isn't "was Luke Skywalker a bad Jedi" or "was Obi-Wan Kenobi a bad Jedi". When trying to determine if someone was a bad Jedi, using the dark side counts against them. That's all that is being said. Count that against Anakin, along with, you know, turning to the dark side fully, leading the assault on the Jedi Temple, personally murdering many Jedi including innocent children and probably doing pretty terrible stuff over the next twenty years. Is this discussion actually happening? I already said Luke was disqualified for having the Force, especially in the OT setting where it is relatively rare. In the PT, where Force users seem more common (we see more), Anakin stands out among Force users by being the Chosen One, the Force user with so much potential. People point this out. He has the highest midichlorian count ever. Maybe. Not that it matters, as I've always maintained that I was stating my opinion. But I'm sure quite a few fans would agree with me on Han. Not that it matters. I think that's irrelevant.