PT Was Anakin Skywalker a "bad" Jedi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Charlie512, May 28, 2013.

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  1. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

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    [quote

    Would this inter personal training include leaning back and catching each other?

    [/quote]


    Yep, and if you cheat by catching your partner with the force you're expelled from the order!

    Seriously though, to what extent are the Jedi Council obliged to do anything with Anakin. If they deem him unsuitable for Jedi training, isn't that it? They didn't select him. Qui-Gon is essentially responsible for him being there. If he isn't selected, he's Qui-Gon's responsibility.

    As it was, I think they knew that Qui-Gon, and then Obiwan, would've trained Anakin regardless of their position, so they decided to go against their better judgment and at least keep him close to the fold. A couple of people have already suggested this.[/quote]
    Last edited by DarthDuckie, Jul 3, 2013
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  2. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

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    Was Anakin Skywalker a "bad" Jedi?

    A bad Jedi? No. A Jedi that didn't follow set rules? Yes, indeed.

    I think Anakin, in the end, didn't believe in the Jedi Code and therefore did not want to be the traditional Jedi Knight like everyone else was. Yes, he liked the power that came with it, and the adventurous life, as well. But deep down he didn't want to be tied down with rules that inhibited him in helping others, so therefore he wasn't devoted to being like other Jedi, which was total obedience to the Jedi Order and its dogmatic views. He instead steered away from his beliefs in the Jedi ways and took his own path, and I believe this new outlook on life happened right after his mother died.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Jul 4, 2013
  3. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

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    I think it would be fair to say that Anakin didn't really want to be a Jedi, but rather a very powerful force user who chose how to use that power himself, rather than following a restrictive code laid down by someone else. Conveniently enough, that's pretty much what a Sith is.
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  4. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

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    But as a child he always said that he wanted to be a Jedi? He had dreams of him coming back to Tattoine as a Jedi and rescuing slaves. I feel like as he got older though, he started to feel restricted and wanted to learn more about the force himself and not be restricted by the Jedi code. So I feel like your point could work.
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  5. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    He only said that because he didn't know what being a Jedi meant. He didn't really know what a Jedi was. He just thought it was cool guy with a lasersword that got to travel the stars.
  6. PiettsHat Force Ghost

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    Jan 1, 2011
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    I think Anakin likely didn't understand what being a Jedi entailed when he signed up. He was nine years old -- how many of us at that age have a full understanding of what our dream job will really be like?

    I would tweak your definition of a Sith though -- I'd say a Sith is defined primarily by the fact that they are willing to exercise their power at the expense of others, not just for themselves.

    Anakin, I think, wanted to choose how to use that power himself, but I do think he wanted to help people as well. He became a Sith when he allowed his lust for power to supersede the welfare of others.
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  7. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

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    Padme was queen of a planet as a teenager, and Major Payne had a full-time job at six years old.
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  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    True, but I still don't think Anakin had any idea what the hell "being a Jedi" meant. Case in point: he had the dream about freeing slaves, and Qui-Gon specifically said they weren't there to free slaves--there was no real "WTF?" moment on Anakin's part after that; I think he still thought that he could come back and free slaves ("I will come back and free you, Mom"). He also looked out at the stars and said he wanted to see all of them.

    Star Wars may have some kids in abnormally mature situations, Padme included, but Anakin, other than being a slave, seemed like a pretty normal 9-year-old to me. And I've been around a lot of 9-year-olds.
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  9. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

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    I agree that Anakin didn't know what being a Jedi really involved as a boy. It was all laser swords and fruit levitation. As an adult, though, I don't think things changed all that much. He still liked the laser swords and levitating fruit, but not so much the subservience to authority, discipline and restraint elements.
  10. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

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    He had the physical traits and only wanted the looks of being a Jedi it seems. He seemed to throw away or care less about the virtues that came with the role.
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  11. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

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    He
    He may have been a bad, disobedient Jedi but he was a good human being. He cared for others, especially Padme, and yet he still found the good in himself to remain committed to the Jedi Order. I think that few could withstand that pressure, especially considering marriage was forbidden within the Jedi. He also had a true passion for the Republic and wanted to help others as can be seen in The Phantom Menace when he questions why nobody helps each other and states that it is the biggest problem with the galaxy. He then helps Qui-gon acquire the credits he needs by risking his life in a potentially treacherous pod-race. It is a shame that all these amazing qualities were taken advantage of by Sidious. I feel that Anakin was such an unruly Jedi because he was such a passionate and true human being.
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  12. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

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    He also thought that Jedi were invincible, so yeah... he really had no clue.
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  13. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

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    This is true. He was incredibly, dangerously overambitious and it got him into trouble on numerous occasions such as his defeat at the hands of Count Dooku on Geonosis. Moreover, he was very ungrateful toward the decision to put him on the Jedi Council. Anakin, you are the only Jedi in history to have been put on the Council at such a young age, even when you aren't a master; and yet you complain? Seriously! In the original trilogy, we see the same overconfidence flowing through the veins of his son Luke, such as when he chooses to go on a rampant personal mission to Bespin rather than heed the advice of Masters Yoda and Obi-Wan: the only remaining Jedi beside himself and two of the most experienced even at the time of Order 66.
  14. DRush76 Force Ghost

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    Frankly, I have doubt that the other Jedi had a grip on their fears and emotions. I rather doubt it, judging from the actions and beliefs of the likes of Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan.

    Their handling of emotional attachments has never struck me as adequate. Instead of teaching their acolytes on how to face and deal with emotional attachments in the right manner . . . or even acknowledging that distancing oneself from attachments takes time, the Jedi merely imposed a rule upon the Order's members and failed to realize they had formed an attachment to the Order itself.
    Last edited by DRush76, Jul 13, 2013
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  15. Mockinjay404 Jedi Youngling

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    Apr 2, 2015
    I think that Anakin was consumed by love.He secretely married Padme and this made him pay attencion to his private life.When he heard that his wife was pregnant,he was happy and he wanted to have a happy family.He would have do everything to save Padme from childhood birth.
    He would have been a better jedi if he was not so determined and proud.You can say that he was a coward because refused to understand that everyone will die and we shouldnt stop the process.
    Dont get me wrong,I love Anakin,but he was too arogant for a jedi.
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  16. The Sith Camp Jedi Knight

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    Mar 10, 2015
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    I hope what I post here isn't Trollinating but well - whilst Anakin had some habits that were wanton and rather not up to the standards of the Jedi Order - if one thinks about it - you can't always have a 'perfect' hero in a sense eh? I mean look at Batman and Superman - both are Super-Heroes in their own right but whilst Batman is grim, cynical and dark about being a vigilante but also protecting the innocent - whereas Superman is the 'happy idealistic hero' and yet half the time Batman is really the one who's in charge and such and how he is always able to somewhat come up with plans and such to deal with more powerful Super-Heroes and Super-Villains ofc ...

    I mean also look at Harry Potter - he's more or less also prone to anger and violence, sometimes breaking rules even if it be for the good and how Dumbledore defended him when he 'blew up his aunt' or the 'Expecto Patronum' spell to protect him and Dudley from the Dementors - where Dumbledore remarked 'even the best wizards are sometimes incapable of controlling their emotions' and looking at Voldemort being one of the most dangerous Dark Wizards - was a complete psychopath and violent ...

    But then again - as Darth Vader Anakin - atleast when he was confined to the suit - he was also capable of:

    1.) Redemption (well with Luke's help and encouragement)
    2.) Regret (well - he did go to Leia to repent but at first she refused to listen to him)
    3.) Patience (Well learning from how his mistakes on Mustafar cost him - so how he changed tactics against Obi-Wan and Luke on the Death Stars again)

    And Anakin - the emotional attachments was one thing but he did care about the ones he cared about and his friends ... and whilst he did act impulsively and was angry at times - he did also care and want the best for his friends and those he loved ...

    Compare that to Palpatine (both canon and EU) where Palpatine:

    1.) Was arrogant since youth...(remarking to Darth Plagueis 'I ignore the expectations of others...)
    2.) Violent (his duel against Mace Windu and 3 other Jedi Masters and how he blasts people and victims with Sith Lightning and such)
    3.) Remorseless to a fault beyond redemption (in the Darth Plagueis novel he remarked how when he was still younger - he crashed his speeder and killed two civilians in a as-a-matter of fact voice)...like where he ordered Anakin to 'Do It!' and kill Count Dooku... or ordering the Zilo Beast to be killed to have it studied and cloned ...
    4.) Sadistic Killer and Murderer (he murdered his entire family out of pure hatred and goading by Darth Plagueis - and how at first he was just confused and surprised at what he was able to do and remarking to Darth Plagueis 'Magister for a moment I was a Storm!') with no hint of regret (look at The Clone Wars to Order 66)...
    5.) Cruel Manipulator (manipulating both sides to the Clone Wars and lying subtly to Anakin that he 'can save Padme') ...
    6.) Power-hungry (Anakin wanted well Power - then again more or less as he wanted to become more Powerful than any Jedi to stop Death...Palpatine didn't give a 'Force' on how he'd get Power and how he would use his Powers for pure evil and malice...even his actor Ian Mcdiamid remarked when portraying Palpatine how Palpatine was an embodiment of Evil...)
    7.) A Complete Amoral 'Jerk' you could say as well (given Palpatine claimed he isn't a Sith Monster but a Savior to the Galaxy despite having the Death Star and continuing the destruction of those who opposed him) and how Palpatine remarked 'there is no difference really between the Jedi and the Sith' when Anakin for the most part correctly claimed 'Jedi use their Powers for good ... they care about others (well to a strong extent yes - putting aside ego and Dark/Gray Jedi) and how the Sith are selfish and don't care about others (which is a true major point - given Sith betray one another in the end... and no Sith was ever always 100% loyal to one another or friendly to one another...)
    8.) Traitor (not just to the Republic and all the Jedi ideals but even the Sith - I mean where Palpatine broke the rules of the Rule of Two and how Palpatine only cared for a Powerful Sith Apprentice to serve him long enough before No. who knows what fits the bill ...)
    9.) Apathetic (didn't give a 'Force' about saving Padme, didn't give a 'Force' about Count Dooku once Count Dooku was done for ... didn't give a 'Force' probably more or less once he killed Darth Plagueis and 'learned all he needed'... although then again where Palpatine was grinning and remarking 'he (Darth Plagueis) became so Power...' implying he still had a degree of respect to the Powerful Munn Sith Scholar...
    10.) Mass Murderer (similar to Number 4) but you get the gist of it and how Palpatine again had no qualms or remorse about it ...
    11.) Selfish (didn't give a 'Force' about anyone or anything almost other than things that were useful to him and he just discarded them once they had no usage ... or where he ordered Anakin to kill pretty much anyone in Order 66 and yet practically backed down on his word by remarking how in Anakin's anger he killed Padme...) and just took what he wanted more or less...
    12.) Sith Lord (well as we know it one of the Most Powerful Sith Lords then in Star Wars...)

    So Anakin perhaps might not be the 'ideal Chosen One Hero Jedi' but still he did fulfill the prophecy and otherwise - unless you wanted Anakin to be an emotionless Droid Robot capable of Lightsaber Combat and 'fulfilling Directives and Orders'... and atleast he is nowhere near as nasty or sadistic or cruel as Palpatine - afterall he remarked 'The Emperor is not as Forgiving as I am...' implying no doubt he still had a hint of mercy and lenience if he wasn't so 'Force-Happy' with you on a bad-day ironically ...
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  17. The Sith Camp Jedi Knight

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    Plus - on a side slightly Trollinating note - look at Master Chief whom in the Halo-verse is 'The Chosen One' and yet it wasn't until Halo IV in 2012 did we get to see more aspects of his emotions and emotional side and a weakness of Master Chief was (don't get me wrong I do like Master Chief but) the fact he's more of a 'face-less hero' despite having a cynical sense of humor and on reality ... so unless one wants Anakin to be like Master Chief (so more or less clad in an advanced Clone Trooper or Droid-Type Armor - but not Darth Vader armor ofc given Darth Vader still projected a powerful presence and imposing aura) and have Anakin to be the 'Silent One' or a 'Jedi of no Faces...' - and then again if Anakin was to be the 'ideal Chosen One Hero Jedi'... wouldn't that mean Order 66 need not happened? Wouldn't that mean we won't have ROTS the way it was portrayed? Wouldn't that mean that Anakin wouldn't have needed to get so emotionally worked up and he would tolerate bygones as bygones ... and wouldn't that mean Anakin probably would make the Jedi Council Very Very Happy and pleased as the 'ideal Jedi Model' ... in other-words - the boring quiet hero even if they be a bad-ass in feats ... I mean hence he might as well be a Robotic Hero ...
  18. IG Lancer Jedi Master

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    In our own world, he would have been diagnosed some kind of personality disorder. I find it shocking that the Jedi Order didn't notice how unfit he was to be a Jedi. I understand that he was too powerful to simply kick him out of the Order and allow to become a spiteful, uncontrolled ball or rage, but they could have entrusted him to a more experienced Jedi Master, or have done something to ease his rage (like buying his mother and setting her somewhere safe and nice).
  19. Obi Wan Kenobi. Jedi Knight

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    Mar 21, 2015
    In reality it all comes down to bad character writing and bad story. But, in the Star Wars universe, he was just a unbelievibly unfit for being a Jedi.
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  20. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

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    I believe the responsibility is shared between Anakin's refusal to do anything but what he wanted and the Council's lack of wisdom and discernment in their handling of him. As shown in the PT, yes, I think Anakin was unfit to be a Jedi.
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  21. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Force Ghost

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    Was Anakin Skywalker a "bad" Jedi?
    I wouldn't say he was necessarily a "bad" Jedi, more a misguided, and misunderstood Jedi. He could be selfish, he was attached and he was arrogant...but a lot of that came with his age and entitlement. At the end of the day, Anakin did genuinely want to do good, up until slaughtering the Jedi and Separatists. But, even that was justified in his mind as being necessary for saving Padme; exp. his selfish desire of having his wife by his side, and ultimately, not feeling the pain he felt that was not unlike losing his mother. He was traumatized and was willing to do anything to not feel that pain ever, ever again.

    He wasn't the perfect Jedi they hoped he'd be, but Mace and Yoda both called it, and to a lesser extent even Obi Wan knew. The boy Anakin was brought up for ten years with attachment and full fledged human emotion. They wouldn't be able to break that just by training him a Jedi and telling him not to do it. However, as I've said many times, the beautiful fall of Anakin Skywalker relates to any human. Maybe we wouldn't all slaughter children to prevent the pain of losing those we love, but we would do things out of our character that we would usually dismiss as impossible in any other circumstance that we didn't classify as dire.
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  22. IG Lancer Jedi Master

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    Anakin could have left the Order like Dooku did. He had marketable skills and was married to a very powerful and influential woman, he could have had a good life out of the Order. Problem is, he wanted to have his cake and eat it.
  23. jakobitis89 Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 27, 2015
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    I don't think he was necessarily bad, but his personal flaws (pride and a short temper primarily) were exacerbated by being completely contradictory to what a Jedi is supposed to be. There is also an element of the Council handling the situation pretty badly. He was clearly never going to be a normal apprentice; he started older than most, he came in with (incorrect but understandable) preconceptions about what the Jedi were/did, never got to grow up amongst other Padawans and the only Jedi he'd really got a chance to interact with initially was Qui-Gonn Jinn, pretty much the most unorthodox/atypical Jedi he could possibly have encountered.

    The problem arises when despite all that the Council decided to try and treat him like every other Padawan who HAD gone through the early years of training and hadn't had the chance to form attachments to their birth families, and had been raised to truly understand the Jedi way and it's true implications from a much earlier age. This was compounded by letting Obi-Wan be his master - which is not a slight on Kenobi, but he was young and inexperienced and never trained any Padawan before; in addition he'd taken on just enough of Qui-Gonn's unique M.O. that Anakin wouldn't be taught the typical Jedi path in the first place.

    This only gets worse as Anakin's power grows and concurrently his pride. He also forms the attachment to Padme that Obi-Wan out of friendship/loyalty permits, and the Council seems to remain ignorant of. Every time Anakin goes against the Council's wishes he's powerful enough to succeed anyway and grows further out of the Council's control. All the while of course Palpatine is stoking the fire and winding Anakin up tighter and tighter and by the time the Council seems to twig actually Anakin's formed (yet another!) attachment, to a guy whose best interests weren't always with the Jedi way even before he revealed himself as a Sith, it's way too late.
  24. Jcuk Force Ghost

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    Mar 16, 2013
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    He shouldn't have been. But it is what it is. With hindsight, someone with enough savvy and big enough balls to have been around George at the time to tell him, 'Nah, this isn't good George. It doesn't make sense' would've been a godsend. But hindsight's a wonderful thing ;)
    Last edited by Jcuk, Apr 5, 2015
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  25. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

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    Feb 24, 2005
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    The Jedi probably could've accommodated Anakin to an extent, but all of those bad decisions were Anakin's alone to make. He had a choice and he chose poorly to yoink a quote from Indiana Jones. IG Lancer has it spot on: Anakin could've left the Jedi Order at any time to find a better life for himself. If he wanted to help people throughout the galaxy, well, I'm sure there are plenty of organizations that would have been more than happy to take him in.
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