PT Was Anakin Skywalker a "bad" Jedi?

The real problem was that (I think) Qui-Gonn and the Council both discussed his role as the Chosen One right in front of him. Logically yes he could and probably should have left the Order when it became clear to he and the Order that for whatever reason the kid just wasn't going to cut it as a Jedi. It's not nice, but c'est la vie, there are other routes open to him. Instead he and they both kept going from mistake to mistake and error to error and not actually learning a thing because everyone knew he was The Chosen One and therefore must carry on carrying on even in a clearly and blatantly non-Jedi way.

 

In the books especially, Padme is convinced that, no matter what, Anakin should not leave the Order.

 

To answer the topic's question: No, but he became one.

 

This is just my opinion on Anakin so take it as such. I think the first time we could maybe have encountered Anakin, he should already have been Obi Wans apprentice. Building a strong bond, and dynamic between the two could've had a well needed early start in the trilogy. Oh who am I kidding lol No Anakin wasn't a bad Jedi

 

Then again - whilst Anakin may not have been the ideal perfect hero or Chosen One by Jedi Standards but he did fulfill the Prophecy (albeit the long and painful hard way) and at times he did display some tenets of the Jedi Doctrine given:

1.) He did remark when he killed off Count Dooku how he shouldn't have done so and that 'it was not the Jedi Way'... he did try to remind Mace Windu of this prior to him attempting to execute Palpatine ...
2.) He did remark somewhat correctly to an extent on how Palpatine was claiming Jedi and Sith were both not too different really - where Anakin remarked how the Jedi 'use their powers for good - they care about others...' and that was true to a good extent - and Anakin - well he did care for those he loved and befriended; Palpatine never 'gave a Force' about anyone but himself ...in the Darth Plagueis novel - the slightest shred of even any point of 'affection' he felt for his father was when Cosinga Palpatine bought him the expensive prototype speeder but that was it for Palpatine who later just saw it as 'a bribe ... but one I accepted' and later murdered his father on the family ship in a bloody and violent way ... then Force-choking/strangling his mother and then his siblings and family guards ...
3.) He did look out for Padme and also Ahsokha - he was upset when she left the Jedi Order - in Death on Utapau he remarked to Obi-Wan Kenobi how he missed her despite the fact she was gone ...
4.) He did at times 'regret' his mistakes and he did in the end redeem himself and - all smiles as a Force Ghost with Master Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi
5.) If only he was a little more patient - given in ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi remarked how 'proud he was of Anakin' and that he had 'trained him and taught him all he knew and how Anakin has become a better Jedi than he could have ever hoped for...' and that Anakin needed to just be a little more patient for the Jedi Council's approval to Jedi Master promotion...
6.) Afterall - he didn't kill Obi-Wan Kenobi - well he was fueled by the Dark Side and was practically seething with Anger only when he was dueling with Obi-Wan Kenobi - and for a brief moment if you looked at Anakin's eyes - it seemed he was to an extent even if for a brief moment - 'sad' when Obi-Wan Kenobi tearfully admonished him for 'Joining the Sith - not Destroying it!' and how he was 'The Chosen One!' and how Obi-Wan Kenobi said 'you were my brother Anakin! I loved you!' and the fact he and Obi-Wan Kenobi likewise did have a long working and kinship relationship since the two met and gradually trained alongside one another to ROTS ... and even when Anakin was being inducted into the Sith by Palpatine - how Palpatine coldly and (falsely) claimed 'every Jedi including your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi is now an enemy of the Republic' - and consider Anakin was still struggling with his conflicted emotions ... and compare that to Freedon Nadd (he and Anakin had some similarities in a sense) whom angrily 'struck down' his Jedi Master after resenting the fact he wasn't promoted to Jedi Knight ... and later he figured he was fault-free and such ...
7.) Anakin - well whilst he was at times violent, reckless, arrogant, amoral, impulsive and angry - well whilst Ahsokha was around - sometimes she did also annoy Ahsokha and he did try to teach her some decency and good things and such ... so that's not too bad eh? And he did have - well next to Padme and Obi-Wan Kenobi and I suppose R2D2 - he did care about Ahsokha and he was upset when she left the Jedi Order ... for someone else like Palpatine? Heh ... he'd probably just kill them off or just didn't 'give a Force about them...'
8.) What about the Mission to Mortis? Where the Son 'corrupted' Anakin and how later Anakin saw what would actually have happened in ROTS where Anakin decided this could never happen - and it was only the intervention of the Father that ensured things continued the way they were fated to be ... by the Force! And surely atleast we can see Anakin was determined to ensure the mistakes that did happen in the future - he was determined to somewhat ensure it didn't happen eh? I mean he could have just succumbed to the Dark Side sooner and independently and decided he had enough of the Jedi Order and the Republic and he'd start his own empire and such ...

 

Anakin was a "good" jedi and a great one. Then he went rogue (darkside).

 

Basically, he wanted to be a Jedi for selfish reasons: to get away from his current life, to see the galaxy, be a hero. But actually being a true Jedi is about being entirely selfless (in every sense of the word) but he never really understood that, and Obi-Wan and the Council didn't realise because being bought up the traditional Jedi way they never considered the possibility until it was far too late. The one person who realised in time to have possibly changed anything was Palpatine... and he had other plans.

 

I think that the real problem of this Topic is this : WHAT IS A JEDI ? WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A JEDI ? When we will answer these question, then we will know he was or not. On my opinion, He wasn't because for me, a Jedi is a volontary servant of the Living Force who finds his pleasure and reason to live by helping peoples and stand against evil. It is a difficult life where, to prevent oneself to succumb to the temptations of the Dark Side, one must always stay in tune with the Force. Your life is not your own anymore. You exist only to serve and not to be served. And that, Anakin could not do ; could never do. It as if asking to Han Solo or Lando Calrissian to become Jedi : they are good guys but not enough for the Job. And it what i think for Anakin. He was a good boy but his training made him arrogant and prideful when he should have been modest, centered, and always kind. No, he didn't have tthe profil of the Job. As Yoda said to Luke in TESB : Do or Do not, there is no Try.
Thank you for reading me.

 

Why does that make him a bad jedi? What we know of his life as a Jedi, he was working with the best intentions and a good heart, while working through his issues like all the other Jedi. Meanwhile, he became a very strong Jedi which is not possible without dedication and focus, at least at some level. All the Jedi are slaves to the Order in the end, so that is not really a good basis to distinguish him and he didn't take on the persona of a Jedi because it is what others expected - he wanted to be a Jedi. also, I think he was impatient, but he certainly did not mind putting in the work. It wasn't like he lazed around the temple waving his saber around and chomping on kale in between meditation and study sessions. He was extremely gifted - the chosen one and was treated like it with respect to being allowed out into the field and skies (rather than onto a farm or in the library) to help and save others - which he did very well.

He surely wasn't perfect, but none of the Jedi were. Perhaps he was a bit more impatient and nontraditional, but he was special - the chosen one - and that took on a character of its own in many ways (i.e., being allowed by the Jedi to learn politics with the evilest man in the galaxy - who subtly worked against his teachings all along the way - not all Jedi had to deal with that). Anyway, I don't see why the things you have said make him bad.

 

I think the question is a bit loaded. What I mean is that out if the thousands of other Jedi that were a part of the Jedi Order at the time Anakin was, we only are shown an extremely small size of Jefi to which we can compare Anakin too. Also, to make matters worse, that small sampling that we can compare Anakin too are all the cream of the crop Jedi Masters who serve on the Council.

I have to think that there had to be other "problem children" within the order. I am sure there is a certain level that a Jedi is suppose to obtain to reach their full potential (for lack of a better word), if they don't reach that level then I don't think the Order would consider them a failure or a bad Jedi. So just by playing the percentages I would bet there were other Jedi that were in the order that were head cases just like Anakin, but weren't considered "bad" Jedi. It's just Anakin got a lot of attention with the whole chosen one thing.

 

Precisely! Anakin then again may not have been the ideal Chosen One hero or fitting all the Jedi Council standards and expectations but in the end one way or another for the most part he did still have a good heart - and he did care about those he loved - and he did redeem himself - even if he chose the long and painful road ... and considering he even remarked once as Darth Vader how the Emperor (Palpatine) was not as forgiving as he was ... and implying no matter what Palpatine would have been more or less always 100x worst and considering EU feats and accomplishments - for starters where Anakin cared and loved and grieved for Shmi Skywalker and buried her and still felt the pain of her loss and well later Padme - consider Palpatine whom at the age of 17 murdered his family (something Anakin would never have done for the matter), engineered the Clone Wars and played both sides for stupid (and even managed to stall Anakin and confuse him long enough on 'his offer' to save Padme), didn't give 'a Force' about anyone (again as Anakin remarked how Jedi care for others which is largely true to an extent) and even got rid of loyal ones and pawns once they're of no use to him ...

Hmm - interesting take - on the What is a Jedi? And what it means to be a Jedi - well then again as Anakin did correctly in a sense remark how Jedi use their good to help others and also they 'care about others' which is a big big thing - Anakin always did care about those he loved - and true he did choose the hard way but he did redeem himself; Palpatine on the other hand was a complete calculating, lying, violent, sadistic and ultimately uncaring tyrant (still a bad-ass Powerful Sith Lord and Emperor though) yet one who ironically believed he was a 'savior' of the Galaxy rather than a monster which in the end he really was ... and the fact how Jedi are self-sacrificing if they must - and Anakin did sacrifice himself to protect Luke; or even in the Clone Wars where he was willing to sacrifice himself somewhat when Aayla, Ahsokha, Captain Rex, Commander Bly and a few Clone Troopers - their ship was disintegrating where Anakin held back the flames even though the explosion was too much for him ... and the fact how Palpatine on the other hand downright was far worst than Anakin - consider for one of the most Powerful Sith Lords and Emperors in SW history - where in the EU he killed and murdered his family - starting with his father in a violent bloody manner, chokes his mother and strangles her in a worst way than Anakin when he was angry at Padme, kills off his younger siblings, murders the guards and other than initial shock and surprise at 'how he was a storm!' as he remarked to Darth Plagueis yet Palpatine bit by bit with Darth Plagueis's training was molded to a Sith that well would have been of a high standard by Sith expectations surely ... and as how Qui-Gon Jinn explained how Sith are selfish and greedy and hence they cannot achieve true happiness let alone immortality ... due to the will to reject compassion ... something which the Jedi encourage ...

 

No one question that he has redeemed himself and it's show us that thought Vader was a Sith Lord and he does many atrocities, he was not evil, just a a bad character ; just like Boba Fett and unlike Palpatine and Tarkin who take pleasure at the suffering of others. Like i have said many times : someone is considered evil when not only he knows that what he does is wrong but also when he takes pleasure and satisfaction by doing so. By being that way, they become unredeemable because there is no good in them anymore. But that doesn't mean Anakin was fit to be a Jedi. Because to become a Jedi, one must embrace, accept and apply the Jedi Code :
There is no Emotion, there is Peace.
There is no Ignorance, there is Knowledge.
There is no Passion, there is Serenity.
There is no Chaos, there is Harmony.
There is no Death, there is the Force.
It is only when you respect that you become a Jedi. In fact, there is 2 types of peoples in the Order : the true Jedi and the Pretenders. And the ones who don't follow the Code are not Jedi, but Pretenders (Anakin, Dooku, Jorus C'Baot...).Indeed, owing to his extraordinary connection to the Force, Anakin Skywalker was able to reach levels of control of the Force that even Jedi Masters could acheive, that and the whole prophecy of the Chosen One made him arrogant and prideful. Despite the Jedi teachings about maintaining Peace and Serenity in oneself to be able to be one with the Force which is the core of the Jedi Arts, Anakin deliberatly and stubornly choose to focus on acheiving more Power, a path most suited for a Darksider. Also, Anakin lacked Empathy : he cared for the people he loved but did not for the ones he disliked. He hated Viceroy Nute Gunray and the others Separatist Leaders for all the evil they have done, when he should have pitying them for they were slaves of the Dark Side like Obi-wan and the others true Jedi did. In the end, Anakin was unfaithful by Emotion, Ignorance and Passion. Regarding Dooku and C'Baot, they thought they were superior to other living beings of the Galaxy. They thought that the Jedi were superior beings and that by this natural superiority granted by the Force, it was to them (Jedi) that devolded the role to govern and lead the galaxy of these people ignorants and idiots who do not cease to jeopardize its stability. They were right in part when they said that the people (in particular the politicians) were destroying the Republic but where they were absolutely wrong is that the Jedi are not made to govern; they are servants and not of Governors. By thus believing, they violate the fundamental idea of Jedi who is that they are servants of the Living Force, and the Living Force is all living beings (sentients, semi-sentients and non-sentients) of the Galaxy even of the Universe. The Jedi is supposed to have undestand that and accept that when he have passed the Trials of the Jedi Knight. But apparently, it was not always the case. Anakin was not evil like many others being like Palpatine, Tarkin, Maul or Grievous. But he was selfish, stubborn, moody, arrogant and prideful : the perfect ingredients for a temptation by the Dark Side. In the end, like many many bad guys he dislike or hated (the Separatist Leaders for example), he became also a slave to the Dark Side. Ironically isn't it ?
Thank you for reading me.

 

Different people have different definitions of evil. For some, a character can be evil despite never, ever having taken pleasure or satisfaction in their evil deeds - just the fact that they have done them, haven't repented or started a "new course" and are continuing to do them, is enough.

A great many "Evil-aligned" characters in settings where Good and Evil are character alignments, are of this type.

A character "raised by villains" might have a warped moral code - believing that Evil acts are a moral obligation - take pleasure in them - but not know that what they're doing is wrong.

 

Then again - looking at some - well in the EU - there's Galen Marek - he was Kento Marek's son but taken by Anakin at a young age and despite the brutal training and cruelty he was subject to ... and yet he took up the Marek family legacy and well contributed to the Rebellion ...

Then there's Darth Maul - taken by Palpatine at a young age for a 'better chance at life' then on Dathomir ... and yet for his ruthlessness and skills as a Sith Assassin and Sith Lord - he did still care for Savage Oppress and his own 'sense of honor' and the fact he was cautious and uneasy and ultimately frightened and helpless the moment he was Trolled by Palpatine and how Palpatine blasts him with Sith Lightning ... and the fact he apparently must have endured and was badly traumatized by Palpatine's violent and cruel training ...

 

I could see them as "Evil aligned - but with a good chance of changing alignment under the right conditions."

 

I felt as if the other Jedis never really trusted him or treated him that well from the very beginning, nor where they not corrupt and thus he never really had a chance to be a "normal" "good" Jedi like Obi-Wan or something.

 

I don't believe he was. but I think he was a flawed Jedi.

 

Anakin is not necessarily "bad" Jedi. He is a generally good person, who for most of the prequels has his heart in the right place. His inability to battle back against his emotions was one of his few flaws, but it was a fatal one, and his fear is what drove him to do wrong.

His emotions are also why he would always remained attached to Padmé, saying he couldn't live without her.

By ROTS, it is clear he has completely turned, and is no longer a Jedi.

But in AOTC he knows he has violated the Jedi Code and we see he is unhappy because of this.

 

That was justified. Anakin wasn't prepared to be a Jedi Knight and wasn't even fit to be a Padawan, given his lack of emotional control and violent tendencies. The problem is, the Jedi Council didn't do anything to fix that, and they let him become more and more powerful instead of focusing in his mental discipline.

If he was to accept nine-years-old Anakin as a Jedi Initiate, Yoda should have taken him as his own Padawan, or have asked some other veteran Jedi Master to do the job, instead of letting the inexperienced, freshly, prematurely knighted Obi-Wan Kenobi take the burden.

 

Obi-Wan did kind of insist.

"I will train him. Without the approval of the Council if I must."

Maybe Yoda heard this as "I will train him."

In the novelization, Yoda suggests to Mace that Obi-Wan is not ready, but Mace disagrees:

Mace: "Qui-Gon was right. He is ready."
Yoda: "Ready this time he was. Ready to train the boy, he may not be."
Mace: "Defeating a Sith Lord in combat is a strong test of his readiness for anything. There is no doubt. The one who tested him was a Sith."
Yoda: "Always two there are. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice."
Mace: "Then which one was destroyed, do you think- the master or the apprentice?"

 

But Yoda outranks him, does he not? Couldn't he simply say, "Under a veteran Jedi Master, will young Anakin train under. Qui-Gon's words, true they will be."

 

Yoda figured that it wasn't worth alienating Obi-Wan over, I guess.

 

I don't really get why he has become so mad at Jedi...

Yes, he might be confused that they wanted him to spy on Palpatine etc etc, but in the end, they were right.. He is the Sith Lord, so why he so easily killed off entire Jedi Temple along with younglings? Sidious only said one word and Anakin immediately forgets what kind of person he is? He thought killing enitre Jedi Temple would save Padme?