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PT Was any part of Palpatine good?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth Arthurius, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Darth Arthurius

    Darth Arthurius Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Do you think, at any point, Palpatine was ever (to any small degree) good? Do you think that perhaps, as many who fall to evil do, he set out on his path believing he was using the Dark Side for "the greater good" and it simply consumed him? Or do you view him as the ultimate evil - no good, no hint of light, nothing?

    I would honestly love to know just how and when Palps fell to the Dark Side, and why, and if he ever had any good intentions.
     
  2. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    I'd say no, but with all the former EU content wiped clean, it is possible to change that now.
     
  3. ss640

    ss640 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Doubt it, I remember in legends it said stuff like he was very arrogant from a young age and manipulative and cunning and I think he slaughtered his entire family

    But as jester j said since that's all gone who knows, but I for one hope not.
     
  4. Dandelo

    Dandelo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    "nobody is ever truly gone"

    this includes Palpatine.

    I do have more to say on this from both an IU and OOU according to my perception. And will post when I have more time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  5. TheCowboyBuilder

    TheCowboyBuilder Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 25, 2016
    Read the book Darth Plageuis - it might not be "Canon" but untill Disney say otherwise it is legit enough ..
     
  6. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2017
    They said otherwise back when they said otherwise on everything.

    It's a great novel, and I highly suggest reading it, but saying that it still fits until the Mouse specifically says otherwise is false.

    As to my own view, I don't think anyone is ever pure evil. They were all, at some stage, normal people like everyone else. Palpatine would be no exception.
     
  7. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    I see a fatherly aspect with Anakin that goes a bit beyond just manipulating him for his own end. I feel that Palpatine is being genuine when he sees Anakin's unfulfilled potential, and there's even a moment after Mustafar, when Palps touches Anakin's burnt body, much like how Obi-Wan does with Luke in ANH.

    Other than that small connection though, dude's a monster.
     
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  8. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
    Did not George Lucas say that Palpatine was the one who was certainly not redeemable or in any way good?
     
  9. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 17, 2015
    No. Part of the reason the character is such a great, enjoyable villain is because he’s so diabolical and irredeemable. He knows he’s evil, he knows he has no good qualities, and he’s loving every second of it. He’s a sadist who gets off on torturing, manipulating and abusing those beneath him.

    I guess maybe you could argue that his passion for life is a good trait, but even that is directed towards being evil.
     
  10. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    New canon? Who knows...maybe? The new canon may have him at some point as the galactic equivalent of a an eagle scout who went off the deep end upon being denied his power converter merit badge.

    Old canon-Nope. Not at all.
     
  11. TheCowboyBuilder

    TheCowboyBuilder Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 25, 2016
    My point is untill they make a film/series whatever that directly contradicts this book ... then in my head it's canon.
    What is canon anyway - in a fictional universe ?
     
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  12. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    No I think he was the only one in the saga who was truly evil
     
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  13. darth-skycrawler

    darth-skycrawler Jedi Master star 2

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    Aug 7, 2001
    It's not my belief, but in the Star Wars galaxy, Sidious is completely evil.
    Even though he is completely evil, I agree it seems to me Anakin is his one weakness. He does seem to have some affection for him as seen in Mustafar, though it's mostly him seeing Anakin as a valuable tool. That being said he puts his life in Anakin's hands time and time again. There seems to be a lot more there than there ever was for Dooku or Maul, but he is still evil and according to the story irredeemable.
     
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  14. ss640

    ss640 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 28, 2017
    Yeah he said Palpatine is the embodiment of all evil and is essentially the devil
    I think in one of the novelisations Palpatine is disgusted by Anakin's burnt corpse and feels nothing but hatred and disappointment because he lost and failed, I don't remember if it was a book or comic but then he decided to keep him once he saw signs of life (I think?)

    Buuut in saying that, that novelisation/comic is no longer canon so who knows :p
     
  15. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 12, 2017
    I agree that the one tiny particle of humanity to be found in Palpatine is his paternal sentimentality towards Anakin. I think that we see this when Palpatine kneels over a seriously injured Darth Vader and touches his forehead. I also think that this become apparent during Palpatine's conversation with Yoda before their Senate duel.

    Palpatine informs Yoda that "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us". This could be viewed as Palpatine simply baiting Yoda, but I think there is a little more behind this statement. It strikes me that Palpatine is actually proud of Vader. Every good parent wishes for their children to surpass them and Palpatine may be no exception. This may be Palpatine's only ambition that is not exclusively motivated by self interest.
     
  16. Darth Weavile

    Darth Weavile Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 10, 2017
    No. He's pretty much the Star Wars equivalent of the devil.
     
  17. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I think even George said that he is completely evil.
     
  18. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2017
    I don't get that though.

    People can become pure evil. But no one is born evil. Even if they're just infants without a care in the world, there is no one in existence that started their lives with black hearts.
     
  19. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 10, 2014
    Palps was pure evil!
     
  20. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Jan 25, 2013
    I've always seen him as an entirely evil devil analogy (especially given some shots are deliberately filmed to look like artistic depictions of the devil or other evil biblical figures)

    That being said, I'm 50/50 split on the explanation that the only good he'd ever had was that, after years spent grooming Anakin, he had developed a small degree of affection for him. Not sure if it came from an ROTS novelization or other source, but I'm pretty sure at least something has said that. I know at least one source said his first instinct upon seeing Vader as a limbless bbq was to leave him there to die for his failure, but he decided to save him anyways - and when you think about it, that IS a bit of a gamble (and one that eventually turned out to be a bad one for him)

    After all, he had nothing to fear that he knew of. Vader was the only real threat to his power, and upon learning that Padme was dead, Vader would've done one of two things - be completely broken to Palpatine's will, or try to kill him in anger, and if not for his injuries, he may have succeeded

    So in that regard, saving Vader, even after his injuries and with no known direct threats, was an unusual degree of compassion, even if his idea was that Vader was little more than a tool at that point
     
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  21. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 19, 2016
    Nobody is born evil? That's just not true.
     
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  22. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2017
    I think it is. Even the worst people in history were just regular people at some point in their lives. Do you think Hitler was thinking of starting the Nazi Party in his crib? He wasn't.
     
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  23. Huttese 101

    Huttese 101 Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 19, 2016
    Well, an argument could be made about the role psychopathy plays in "evil" or evil behavior.
     
  24. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2017
    I guess. But I wouldn't even call psychopaths evil.
     
  25. Huttese 101

    Huttese 101 Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 19, 2016
    I can't say I would either but evil, like good, is, to quote Palpatine, "a point of view."

    I think severely antisocial attitudes or behavior would come across as pretty evil to a lot of people. But I don't think most psychopaths are exactly "evil."