CT Was Darth Vader Basically Depressed Through Out The OT

I know I read many things about how Darth Vader hated himself for killing Padme, and was upset about having to live in the suit, so was he depressed the entire time? I know one EU battle between him and Maul ended with him saying his strength came from his self hatred. If he did hate himself, and was depressed, do you think he regretted some other choices he made? Like, perhaps, wiping out the jedi, helping to create the empire, or do you think he simply didn't care? Also, do you think he was in denial, denying all the evil he had done, or did he acknowledge it?

 

not sure.

 

Vader had buried all the emotional baggage of Anakin Skywalker deep down in the years following the Battle of Mustafar. By the time he encountered Luke at Cloud City and when he made his choice to not join him, that is when I believe he started to rethink his whole situation. He was still wanting to betray Palpatine and rule with his son, but a growing part of him was feeling the guilt of his actions. Hence not losing his **** when the Falcon got away and what he said to Luke at the landing pad.

 

I think, by the time of the OT, he's still depressed....but it's so painful, so bad, that he's buried it so deep and lived with it for so long that he's not as aware of it as he once was (he represses it, tries not to think of it, doesn't want to remember), he's sorta gotten used to it, and has replaced it with layer after layer of rage and hatred.

So yeah, he's depressed, but it's gone way beyond depression. I think he definitely has regrets, or at least used to, before he resigned himself to his fate and piled on the rage to cope.

It's interesting...just the mere reappearance of Obi-Wan Kenobi after twenty years stirs up all kinds of stuff...and is probably the beginning of the resurfacing of Anakin Skywalker. In ESB, he's not repressing so much, he's thinking about things again, he's back in the past, suddenly there's this kid named Skywalker....and Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

Sometimes anger feels a lot better than depression. At least you feel something, you can summon passion, and that helps you get by better than crippling depression.

If I had to vote...I would say he did have regrets for everything he had done, but was repressing it...so on the surface, did not care. I definitely think it was more than just Padme and the suit, otherwise there wouldn't be the good coming back...it would just be a selfish guy who is mad things didn't work out for him, mad he didn't win. He has to actually regret the bad things he's done, not just what he lost.

 

from wookieepedia.

After becoming Vader, Skywalker's personality changed completely. He was now a rattled man, shaken by the perceived betrayal of his dearest friend, his former comrades-in-arms, and his wife. Upon donning the armor that kept him alive, Vader initially remained uncertain, but regained his self-confidence following his killing of Roan Shryne on Kashyyyk. He also gained a firm belief that love was a weakness and was utterly meaningless. Vader had an extremely low tolerance of failure, and did not get on well at all with many of the higher-ups in the Imperial military, nearly choking Admiral Conan Antonio Motti to death when he challenged the power of the Force, though Admiral Motti survived due to the intervention of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin. Both Admiral Kendal Ozzel and Captain Lorth Needa were not so fortunate, as Vader telekinetically strangled both men to death following blunders they had committed. He also retained his former identity's distaste for dishonesty and deception, having once gone into a massive rage that resulted in the destruction of a large part of the Jedi Council chamber upon learning that the Jedi Council, including Obi-Wan Kenobi, had hid the location of the Ghost Prison from him as well as Palpatine. However, he did develop a tendency to craft some falsehoods, or at the very least half-truths. This was especially evident when he told Lieutenant Tohm that he actually killed Anakin Skywalker, when he was in fact Anakin Skywalker

Because of his former identity's status as a slave, Vader also had distress when the concept of slavery is brought up, especially regarding the Empire continuing the slave trade. This distressed nature on the topic once had him, during a debriefing with Commander Vill of the 501st Legion regarding the Cleansing of New Plympto, abruptly ending the debriefing without a word and walking off to the balcony of his palace, apparently too distraught at the revelation of the Empire redirecting the 501st Legion to sell slaves to Orvax IV to fall asleep for the night, and still was troubled by the discovery the next morning.[168]

Despite his rather rocky relationship with higher-ranking officers in the military, Vader got along quite well with the clone troopers, once remarking, "I was rather fond of Commander Appo," following the latter's death at the hands of Roan Shryne. One reason Vader was popular with the troops that served under him was his willingness to fight in the front line, and not expect of anyone anything he was not willing to do himself. One officer who looked up to Vader because of this was Erv Lekauf, who often spoke highly of Vader to his grandson Jori Lekauf. Another military officer to be taken under Vader's wing was Firmus Piett, who succeeded Ozzel as Admiral of Death Squadron, and notably survived being under the Sith Lord's command having erred not once, but twice during his tenure under Vader. This was due to the fact that both of these failures were caused by unforeseeable factors, not errors in Piett's judgment. In addition, although he did execute officers when they failed him, he occasionally promoted military, such as 501st Legion officer Daine Jir, for traits he was personally impressed with. In Jir's case, it was his brutal honesty to Vader. Similarly, he also promoted Birra Seah to temporary moffship for the completion of the second Death Star when she backed up an admiral that Vader had killed's assessments that there were flaws in the design of the ship.[238] He also held some disgust towards individuals who were willing to betray their own worlds for power, even when such actions were to the benefit of the Galactic Empire. This was especially evident with his interactions with the Gecktl soldier Stafuv Rahzduring the seizure of Harix, where he made no effort to hide his opinion of Rahz due to the latter's betrayal of the Gecktl to the Empire, and made it clear that should they have to rescue him, the rescue transport would lead to his death.

Despite his actions, Vader apparently believed he was doing what was good for the galaxy. He also appeared to have had a high sense of self-loathing as a result of his actions, so much so that he nearly committed suicide during his mission to Atoa.[179] His self-hate was strong enough to kill the doppelganger of Darth Maul.[212] He expressed the belief that the Empire was the only way the galaxy could attain peace, justifying his actions and those of the Empire as necessary to accomplish this.[source?] In addition, he also makes it clear to Dengar at one point that, while he did kill when he felt it needed to be done, he did not take amusement at it like his Master.[239] In addition, by the time of the Battle of Endor, he also strongly believed that he was irredeemable, which he relayed to his son with some remorse when capturing him at Endor, in response to his son's attempts to get Vader to free himself from the grip of Palpatine. Shortly after sacrificing himself to save Luke from the Emperor, he admitted that Luke was indeed right about his still having good in him.[4]

 

from these descriptions it sounds like depression and denial.

 

I've often wondered whether he considered that he'd been played like a fiddle by Sidious and was only hanging on in the vain hope that he may one day exact revenge on him.

 

Well, Vader isn't a stupid man, he knows Sidious wasn't his friend. I think the whole, "I can overthrow him" thing from ROTS came from him realizing that Sidious honestly couldn't stop Padme from dying/didn't know how to, and that he basically got played.

 

The nature of the Sith is that they want to turn on each other. The Apprentice more so than the Master since they want all the power. He was only going to kill him once he got what he wanted. By the time he makes his pitch to Luke, though, he no longer cares to be second fiddle and thus starts telling Luke of his ambitions.

 

The only time I noticed depressed Vader was in Return of the Jedi when he's confronted by Luke. As opposed to carrying out acts without hesitation, he holds out some kind of emotion when it comes to dealing with Luke, whether it be self pity when Luke talks of turning him, or sudden anger when Luke mentions his past. Prior to his son coming onto the scene, Vader seemed almost content carrying out all of his cruel acts in the name of the Empire. I'd just assume he quickly learned to let go after his reconstruction; all remnants of his past life were gone, and he had nothing to dwell on.

 

While it takes a while, by the end of Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, he has finally gotten into the state of mind we see him in during A New Hope.

 

I felt that he was somewhat stupid in ROTS.

 

I agree with you.

 

I hope not, otherwise it makes his actions (the assault on the Jedi Temple, his fight with Obi-Wan) even less justified.

 

I don't think Vader was depressed in ANH. He was kickin' ass and taking numbers. A supervillain on top of his game.

And then they had to turn it into a family drama.....

 

I've interpreted his characterization in the OT very similarly to his in the PT. That is, wildly varying as time goes on. It's a more twisted version of his feelings toward Padme regarding how he felt to Luke.

I've seen his personality in ANH as I'd expected after all he'd done in ROTS, which was a waste seeing as he personally murdered the entire reason he committed so many atrocities that even he felt horrible about, not to mention being maimed and forced into that suit for so long. He was just emotionless and dead on the inside. He didn't even show much emotion when Obi-Wan showed up or when he got his "revenge".

In TESB, JEJ was obviously showing a lot more anger in his lines, which has made me interpret his sudden emotional outbursts as a result of finding out his son survived. One of my favorite changes, coming from the 2004 version, is his added line to his conversation with Palpatine. "How is that possible?" Yes, the novelization (which in itself is an interpretation) states that this was Vader feigning ignorance to get on with his plan to overthrow Palpatine, but my interpretation is that he's simply in denial about the fact that his son survived, as he'd believed for the past 20+ years that he'd also killed his unborn child(ren) when he killed Padme. So I think he was more confused than anything in TESB, and he expressed it in anger, as a Sith Lord would.

Then there's his characterization in ROTJ. I see him here not very confused anymore so much as highly conflicted. The scene where he speaks with Luke on the landing platform when he surrenders himself is one of my favorite in the saga. That scene is beautiful. "Then my father is truly dead." Prowse's body language speaks miles about Vader's internal conflict. I think he knew deep down all along that he did love his son, but he knew that a Sith Lord is not supposed to have emotional attachments, yet at the same time, he wants to rule the galaxy with his son. He just can't figure out what to do. It's clear that he also has a degree of expressed sorrow. He always had sorrow, but this is the first time he did not hide it. "It is too late for me... son."

Overall, it's very similar to the PT, but much darker. Some call him bland and one-dimensional in TPM, though I see him as more frightened of what's going to happen to him as anything, and as a result he's very silent, reserved, not showing much emotion. A great similarity and contrast at the same time to his dead lack of emotions in ANH. His rage in TPM over his mother's death and dark emotions in general spurred on by his feeling of being strictly controlled by both Obi-Wan and the council, not being able to give in to his feelings about Padme (if he were to adhere to the Jedi Code anyway) is a good match to his anger in TESB. His conflict over turning to the dark side to save Padme in ROTS matches and mirrors greatly with his conflict to save Luke, with an opposite shift in alignment in ROTJ is self-explanatory.

I personally find the development of Anakin Skywalker to be my favorite of any fictional character I have seen, and I will adamantly stick by my opinion despite any ridicule I may receive

 

The Donald Glut novelization doesn't say anything at all about it - because it predates the 2004 change considerably.

The newer Ryder Windham novelization I'm not sure about, but his book The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader says Vader's surprise was genuine - odd, if he would contradict it in the novelization itself.

 

I believe the Windham interpretation is the one where he feigns ignorance rather than expresses disbelief.
I have the Luceno novel, but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Guess I should get to it

 

The quote from Windham's The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader (not to be confused with Luceno's Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader):

"What is thy bidding, my Master?"
From light years away, on Coruscant, the Emperor replied, "There is a great disturbance in the Force."
"I have felt it," Vader said.
"We have a new enemy. The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."
Offspring?! The surviving tissue in Vader's throat suddenly went dry. Through his shock, he managed to say, "How is that possible?"
Without offering any explanation to support his stated conviction, the Emperor answered, "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us."
Having fought Luke Skywalker on Mimban, Vader was even more aware of the young man's powers than was the Emperor. But he also knew something else; Luke was as ignorant of their familial connection as Vader had been. If he had known the truth on Mimban, Vader thought, I would have sensed it. Still grappling with the Emperor's declaration, he struggled to find words that might discourage his Master's interest in Skywalker. "He is just a boy," Vader said. "Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
The Emperor believed otherwise. "The Force is strong with him," he said. "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."
The Emperor had not said in so many words that he wanted Luke Skywalker dead, so Vader — needing Skywalker alive to accomplish his goals — took a different tack. "If he could be turned," Vader suggested, "he would become a powerful ally."
"Yes," the Emperor mused, as if he had not thought of that possibility. Vader could only imagine what the Emperor was thinking. The Sith had long maintained their rule of two: one Master, one apprentice. Even Vader knew that there wasn't room enough in the galaxy for three Sith Lords, and yet the Emperor's hooded eyes seemed to sparkle as he said more emphatically, "Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?"
"He will join us or die, Master," Vader said. He bowed, and the Emperor's hologram faded out.
Now that the Emperor was interested in Luke Skywalker's fate, Vader knew he had to do everything in his power to find Luke before the Emperor found him.​

 

Vader didn't kill Padme. She committed suicide.

 

not really, losing the will to live isn't killing yourself. vader thinks he killed her and that's what matters.

 

And that's all that matters for the purpose of this particular conversation.

 

there are times when an older person's spouse dies that the other spouse dies soon after. because they are very old and they've been with their spouse their whole life they sometimes "lose the will to live". they aren't killing themselves. it's not suicide they just die.

anyway, padme losing the will to live is another mythological story element and part of a tragedy. there are a lot of story elements in myths and legends that don't hold up under close scrutiny but that's just how it is.