Was Darth Vader using the Dark side to save Luke???

Ok you may have seen this title and asked yourself what drugs is this fool on, but before you post to say so or to lock this just think about it.

A jedi uses the force when he/she is at peace and without passion, while the sith use the force with their passion (ie anger, greed etc.)
Well I don't know about you but I definitely wouldn't be feeling at cool, calm and collected if my son/daughter was getting zapped by force lightning so I be using my anger to stop what's happening and thats the same as Darth Vader. So after this rambling with mind to the fact that Anakin is meant to bring balance to the force was it more to bring the notion that the light side was too extreme and he needed to helpw bring the light side of the force to a less extreme dogmatic view that we see in the PT to a more central view where its alright to use your passion but to control so you don't go to the other extreme ie the dark side. Which is from the limited comics I've read what the light side of the force in the era circa Nomi Sunrider et al.

Now you can shoot down my theory while I take cover.

 

Interesting topic!
I think Anakin felt a great resolve more than anything else. He didn't let anger control his actions. Instead, he did what he had to do to save the life of his son - pick up Palpatine and throw him down the shaft. He committed the ultimate act of compassion - self-sacrifice - which is the opposite of greed. That was the only way he could ever hope to defeat the dark side. The only way to renounce it completely.





Renounce the dark side!
/Flames

 

A quote is in order here:

"It really has to do with learning," Lucas says, "Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can't be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he's caused. He doesn't right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the Saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I've grown to love- primarily the Emperor- and throw away my life, to save this person. And I'm doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I've done. I broke his mother's heart, but he still cares about me, and I can't let that die. Anakin is very different in the end. The thing of it is: The prophecy was right. Anakin was the chosen one, and he does bring balance to the Force. He takes the one ounce of good still left in him and destroys the Emperor out of compassion for his son."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith, page 221

So, I'd say that destroying the Emperor out of compassion for his son would definitely be a "light side" action, particularly since it involves the destruction of the Sith and self-sacrifice.

 

I'd have to disagree that Vader allegedly used the Dark Side to save Luke, because if you really watch that scene, it soesn't reflect that. He didn't go Incredible Hulk on the Emperor; he had to think about it. He didn't take immediate action, screaming "Stop hurting my son, you miserable old fart!!" He was mulling it over, shifting his glance from his master to his son, before he actually took action.

 

Before Luke won the dual, Vader was using the dark side to turn Luke to "save" him. Once it was clear that Luke could only be saved by Vader had to make a conscious decision to save Luke. Vader bought Luke to the emperor and he knew the risks for Luke were great. It was Vader's fault alone for what happen to Luke so it was hard for him to be focused on hate for the emperor. Instead, Vader was focused on how he failed family members who were loyal to him.

 

Vader does not use the Force to save Luke. He does not use his anger and hate. He lets go of his dark emotions and acts on instinct. He shows a great deal of compassion for the very person who is dying, because he showed great compassion for him.

 

I thought the definition of the light side of the force is compassion. If this is the case, Vader does use the force to save Luke.

 

No, it just means that he did not act like a Sith did. A Jedi is still a Jedi, even if they do not use the Force to save lives.

 

Since GL draws on earthly metaphysical systems for Star Wars, I'd like to draw analogies to at least one of them: the Jewish Kabbalah. One Jewish saying is that if you make G-d's will your will, then He'll make your will His will. This would be the lightside. In Star Wars terms, it would be called "Force surrender" (which, incidentally, is a power Ben Kenobi has in the Episode III game). This is where the Jedi are in that they want to do the will of The Force. The Sith are different. They want to force The Force to do their own will. In fact, in the ROTJ novel, Vader expresses gratitute, in his thoughts, for not losing his son to the weak side of The Force that makes you beg and plead for every scrap of energy it gives you.

In Kabbalistic terms, the light side would be acceptance or hesed and the darkside would be gevurah, or judgment. Neither is fully good or evil and the Emperor is right, in part, when he says that good and evil are points of view, in that most actions are mixed. Was it good for the Jedi to want to kill Count Dooku? Clearly, and this is why the participated in the war. But at the same time, many systems wanted to leave the Republic, and it was evil to force them to remain against their will. Does this make the Jedi evil? According to the ROTS novel, billions of lives were being lost daily. The Emperor told Vader he wanted to end the war and gave him instructions for doing so. Once the Jedi and Separatist leaders were gone, and the droid armies were short done, he seems legitimately pleased. He has literally saved the billions of lives that would have been lost had the war continued. Does this make the Sith good?

So "light" is just acceptance and "dark" is just judgement. But if you accept everything, then you leave the door wide open for evil to reign. But if you make too many judgments, then you're imposing your will on others' free will, which is the foundation of evil.

So did Anakin use the darkside to kill Palpatine? In the novel, he's not thinking about it and the movie is misleading in this regard. Rather, he's gathering the strength to make his move. It was a "darkside" move in that he was judging the Emperor, but it was a good move in that he saved an innocent life and killed the most evil and dangerous being in the GFFA. It also could have been the will of The Force for Palpatine to die, as Yoda tells Anakin in ROTS that it's the will of The Force for everyone to die eventually. This is also apparently true in our own world, because if G-d doesn't want people to die, He sure isn't doing much about it!

In conclusion, because he was making a judgment, it was a darkside action, but it could have also been the will of The Force (and that's the implication of the entire Prophecy of the Chosen One) and hence was also a lightside action. Perhaps that's how The Force was balanced? It was an action in which both sides of The Force were used.

 

:::I'd have to disagree that Vader allegedly used the Dark Side to save Luke, because if you really watch that scene, it soesn't reflect that. He didn't go Incredible Hulk on the Emperor; he had to think about it. He didn't take immediate action, screaming "Stop hurting my son, you miserable old fart!!" He was mulling it over, shifting his glance from his master to his son, before he actually took action.

I know there's a thread about 'What was your reaction to Vader's (TESB) revelation?', but I'm thinking I'll start a thread like 'What was your reaction to Vader's (ROTJ) redemtion?'

Has anything like that been done before?

Anyway, that whole sequence really freaked me out... at the time.

I was an Evil Vader fan.

 

I was just thinking Vader looked kind of scary with electricity going through his skeleton

 

I don't really think that Darth Vader was using the dark side in order to save Luke Skywalker, his only son, from the emperor. I think Darth Vader was actually using his feelings, his good, and whatever strength that he had left inside of him to save Luke. Redemption through love for Luke was what made Darth Vader save Luke, also the good that still remained inside him.

 

I think that Vader was in perfect balance when he made his decision to destroy Palps.
He had to commit an evil to do a good. 1-1=0.

Personally I think that Vader used the force to seriously hurt Palps-possibly a force crush like in the end of ep. 3, why? Watch when he hurls him over the side rails, there is a large walkway that someone as powerful as Palpatine should have been able to glide to and go about his business, unless he was hurt.....(he had plenty of time, plus he should know the schematics of his own battle station-foresight, etc.!)

Seriously that would really be a cool scene to show that Vader's power and love for his son saved the day!

 

If the force was needed to destroy the emperor, I think it might have been the light side of the force that Anakin used.

 

While Earthly religions say killing is a sin, in Star Wars, Jedi can kill. But is how they do it that counts. A Jedi can kill in the defense of others, if it is a last resort and they hold no maliace in their hearts. Obi-wan could kill Maul because it was in self defense of his own life. He let go of his anger and hate for Maul, for killing Qui-gon. Mace killed Jango without any anger and hate. Luke did not hold any hate for the Stormtroopers or Jabba's guards or the Rancor. Anakin did hold hate in his heart for Dooku, for the Tuskens, for the Imperials who failed, for the Jedi and for the Separatist Council. But he let go his hate when he saved his son. He didn't hate Palpatine. He only felt pity for a monster that he had served for so long. For a man desperate to cling to his empire. And he felt unconditional love for a son who forgave him for his crimes.

 

He's not using the Dark Side if you consider the intentions of his actions. He is not executing the Emperor. He is not overthrowing his master and usurping his power. He is not lashing out in anger at someone who wronged him. He is not even bringing balance to the Force (not consciously, anyway.) He is simply saving his son.