Lit Was Dooku ever good?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Vialco, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    He did some awful things to be sure. He studied and used the Dark Side, but he never seemed to fully give himself to it like Palpatine or some other Sith. I think its similar to VOTF when Luke and Mara were discussing why she wasn't ever corrupted, even though she did plenty of bad things, though Dooku's obviously a lot worse than Mara ever was.

    And i'm not sure if he believed he was the Chosen One, so much as he wanted to be and wanted others to acknowledge him as greater than he was. I know he had a particular dislike for Anakin as Yoda pointed out to him on Vjun.
  2. Blithe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2003
    star 4
    It's stated that Dooku believed he was the chosen one, or at least more likely to be the chosen one than Anakin, in an article in the Star Wars Roleplaying Game Revised Core Rule Book, by Wizards of the Coast.

    Edit: Relevant quote for interested parties:

    "His apprehensive colleagues in the Jedi Order believe that no one can call upon the power of the dark side without being corrupted. Dooku assures himself that his keen mind, pure intent, and strong moral compass will see him safely through the perilous journey. Indeed, he suspects that the prophesied "one who would bring balance to the Force" is not some tow-headed child from Tatooine, but a seasoned philosopher--a man of sharp insight and solid character with the clarity to see the path to galactic enlightenment and the titanic willpower to walk it, and most important, the leadership to carry others along with him. Someone like himself." - SWRPG Revised Core Rulebook, Count Dooku character biography, pp. 313-314
    Last edited by Blithe, Nov 14, 2012
  3. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    He was more amoral than immoral, I'd say. Very machiavellian. At one point I think Qui-Gon says to himself that while he respects his master, he really can't love his master. (He would never be a father figure towards Qui-Gon, as Qui-Gon would be to Obi-Wan, for example)

    Dooku basically didn't care about morals -- it was more like, "the ends justify the means".
  4. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Dooku was such a brat that couldn't handle the Jedi picking a child over him.:p
    rumsmuggler and Order66Survivor like this.
  5. Danzo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    star 1

    Is it just me or does that description seem more fitting for C'baoth?

    Edit: If there were to be a Dooku novel I would love to see some interaction between C'baoth and Dooku.
    Last edited by Danzo, Nov 15, 2012
  6. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Although it's never outright stated, as far as I know, I like to think that Dooku and C'Baoth were great friends; makes sense, from the familiar yet somewhat antagonistic relationship C'Baoth and Qui-Gon seem to have (from their brief exchange in Cloak of Deception).

    They're so much alike, I could easily see Dooku and C'Baoth hitting the town together.
  7. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    That would be one too many elitist arrogant Jedi for any town to handle.
    thesevegetables and instantdeath like this.
  8. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    On that note, when I first read the Thrawn Trilogy I couldn't help but picture C'Baoth as Christopher Lee (the Saruman look). So they permanently look exactly alike in my mind, with different hairstyles.
  9. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    On the cover of Heir, Jorus does look pretty close to Saruman.
  10. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    At least Saruman wore clothes. :p Well, until his fall from grace.

    I like to think Dooku was once good, rather than that Yoda and Mace Windu were that blind not to notice how corrupt Dooku could be. Although then there's Sora Bulq who Mace missed too. Sure by RotS he feels like he was always like that, but that can be chalked up to dark side corruption by then. The excellent Dark Rendezvous novel has a really good portrayal of the Yoda and Dooku teacher/student relationship.

    I think in either the RotS novelization or the Dark Rendezvous book, or maybe it was Labyrinth of Evil (as Luceno would be good at referencing everything), Dooku believes the ideal Chosen One would be refined, intelligent, calm... in other words, himself. :rolleyes: I'm not quite sure he claimed to be the Chosen One, but that he believes the perfect one would be just like himself. Yeah, big ego.

    The Jedi let Anakin stay with them, but then up until the Tuskan slaughter he didn't do anything too appalling, I think, although he wasn't a very good Jedi either. In the Plagueis book Dooku looked like an easy target for recruiting but then that's all from a Sith point of view. Although its probably a bad sign that when Plagueis hears Qui-gon was sent to Naboo, he worries that Qui-gon isn't like the rest of Dooku's messed-up students.

    Probably Dooku was arrogant, but he was idealistic and even by RotS, when he's plotting the downfall of the Jedi, he believes it is all for a greater cause, not just mwa-ha-ha, rule the galaxy, but rather improve the galaxy. Of course some Sith do believe that, but he really thought the whole Clone Wars was just for that purpose, but he completely missed how much Anakin really meant to their plans. But then Anakin was always a sore spot for Dooku- about as far away from Dooku's ideal image of a Jedi (or Chosen One) as possible, with some almost familial lingering sentiment for Obi-wan because of Qui-gon.

    Although I'm sick of most of Dooku's appearances these days. Not just from the overload of Clone Wars era, with the dark ending approaching steadily, but its all so... repetitive. Often by hologram he just shows up to lie, manipulate or threaten lackey. When he does show up in person, its usually for an inconclusive duel. And him being almost killed by a voodoo doll doesn't help.

    Dark Horse's TCW comic had some pretty interesting Dooku moments though. In another of their endless plots, Dooku and Sidious drew a planet with very advanced engines into the war on the Separatist side, with the twist being that Dooku was old friends with the queen of that planet... but as he was a Jedi, and she was married, he didn't do anything. But now the king is dead (as part of the bigger plot rather than just Dooku aiming for a widow), but by the end, the planet has completely withdrawn after both their king and prince died, just as Sidious planned it as those kinds of people were too charismatic for the Separatists and neither side gains their engines. The only problem is that the queen found out Dooku's role in things and... isn't happy, losing her friendship forever. Probably one of the few times Dooku actually shows some regret at how things played out.

    I didn't really care about Dooku that much, as in the end, he's just a patsy, a fool, he manipulates and handles hundreds if not thousands of plots, is the public villain of a lot of the Clone Wars, knows about a lot of Palpatine's plans, but just never really gets it until he's already lost both hands and is at Anakin Skywalker's questionable mercy (although given how much death Dooku is responsible for by then, its sort of understandable why Anakin isn't feeling too kindly... just as Palpatine planned).
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  11. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    And see this hits the nail right on the head. To me it always comes off as him not so much believing he's the Chosen One, but having this idea in his head on what the person should be like and it just happens to fit him.
    Order66Survivor likes this.
  12. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah, it's been years since I read that book, but I seem to recall interpreting it like that too, with him just thinking "The Chosen One should be someone like me" rather than actually thinking it was him. It was like Jafar thinking the Lamp belonged in the hands of someone better than a dirty street rat.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Nov 16, 2012
  13. tal0nkarrde Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2005
    star 2
    Haven't read the Darth Plagueis novel yet, but from what I have read in other novels, the line between dark and light was very blurred for Dooku. He was on the light side of that line for a good part of his time as a Master, but faltered after an incident involving the Mandalorians. It was then that he started to question the integrity of the Jedi Order. Prior to that battle, he is not unlike other Jedi who toyed with some dark side traits like arrogance and anger. Afterwards, he was a changed man, his fears taking over as he lost his faith.
  14. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Palpatine was also of noble birth.
  15. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    Dooku was a powerful Jedi, but like everyone here says, he had flaws. These flaws, limited mainly to his character made him ripe for the picking as a potential Sith.

    Despite his idealism for a better galaxy through rule of a less corrupt government, he still saw himself as a decent part of that vision, leading us to see that he thought he knew what was best for the galaxy. A perfectly Sith like attitude.

    His offer to Obi-Wan, then almost apologetic 'it might be difficult to secure your release' was a good portrayal of the real character of Dooku. There never really was a choice, it was 'do it my way, or face death'. Thats what his regime would use. No different from the Empire.

    Dooku was powerful and a visionary, but ultimately would never have lasted. Sidious wanted himself sitting on the throne and didn't need a contemporary like Dooku, he needed a fist like Vader to strike fear into the Galaxy.

    Dooku's career as a Jedi was also marred by the Battle of Galidraan where he led a contingent of Jedi, including his aggressive padawan Vosa in confrontation with the Mando's. The decimation of both sides would have raised some questions with the Council.

    For me, Dooku was always too ambitious to settle for master as a jedi and too narrow minded to see his limited place amongst the sith and the lacked the foresight to realise his tenure would be brief.
  16. SkywalkerSquadron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2013
    star 4
    I don't think Dooku was always evil. I think he was probably good at some point too. Plus, he was trained by one of the greatest Jedi ever: Yoda.