Lit Was Exar Kun possessed by the amulet?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darklordoftech, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Exar Kun's thoughts seemed to suddenly change to agree with the Sith right before he got the amulet and then his anger "multiplied" when the amulet clamped to him.

    @LivingJediDream
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 14, 2013
  2. LivingJediDream Jedi Grand Master

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    I think Exar Kun was a dark person from the start. If Tales of the Jedi is the same storyline as the film saga, Ulic Qel-Droma is the anticipation of Anakin Skywalker, not Exar Kun.
  3. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    "I will never be seduced by the Dark Side." "Master Vodo." "Forgive me. I must live."
    @Zorrixor @Darth Loocas (I think you two will find this topic interesting.)
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 14, 2013
  4. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    Eh, Vodo noted that there was always darkness in Exar Kun's heart. A place where no light was ever able to enter. He showed his arrogance during his duels with Crado and Sylvar, as well as his arrogance and anger. Him accepting the amulet and the Dark Side was just his final fall, when he finally gave into the dark emotions he'd had the entire time, so I wouldn't say the amulet is what led to that.
  5. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    But it's only in the amulet scene that he starts wanting to bring about a second Golden Age of the Sith.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 14, 2013
  6. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    No similar than any other person falling to the Dark Side and their personality shifting somewhat. That was the exact moment he finally gave in to his darker emotions after all and embraced the darkness.
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Jun 14, 2013
  7. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    These personality shifts fascinate me.
  8. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    Even Uliq was different when in the embrace of his darker passions. Same with Bastilla, Anakin, Quinlan, etc. The Dark Side by its nature always seems to pervert the user to the core, corrupt a good person and make them bad. Heck as awfully written as he was, even Darth Caedus showed shades of this.
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  9. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    The Jedi really need to watch who they train. If the Dark Side changes people's personalities, I guess the Dark Side itself is the real villain.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 14, 2013
  10. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 23, 2012
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    For some reason I read this as "was Exar Kun a manlet"

    it would explain why he was so angry
  11. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    "Beware, Jedi Master, lest through carelessness and inattention you let loose on the galaxy a monster"- Bodo Baas

    Sums it up fairly well.
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  12. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    Dec 5, 2004
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    Tales of the Jedi had an unfortunate tendency to confuse the dark side with some sort of demonic possession. It's a peculiarity of the series, and doesn't signify that Exar Kun was somehow not in control of his actions. He was basically blackmailed into joining the Sith, but he sought them out willingly.
  13. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    May 10, 2004
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    The personality shift itself needs some more discussion in general. I find it odd and prefer villains to still be themselves.. not suddendly changed as if posessed. Anakin Skywalker was not posessed.. mislead and confused but not posessed with a sudden change. Jacen too.

    If anything the posession and sudden change should be a sign only of true posession by either a Sith spirit of a talisman or the Sith master taking over the apprentice as Darth Bane tried and failed. Exar Kun now could very well be posessed by a Sith spirit.. maybe by an old one, maybe by Vitiate used as a tool! After all he used other amulets to release Sith spirits and take over former Jedi followers of him as if releasing old friends to get a new body like he'd got one!
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  14. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Stuff involving the ancient Sith seems to do that (TOTJ, Sith Emperor, Katarn on Dromund Kaas, etc.)
  15. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    I doubt Vitiate is the possessor considering Ragnos's opinion of Vitiate, but otherwise you understood the OP better than anyone else.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 15, 2013
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  16. Starkeiller Force Ghost

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    Annoying, isn't it?

    Bad guys are supposed to be bad guys, not Manchurian Candidates.
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  17. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  18. LivingJediDream Jedi Grand Master

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    The idea of dark side possession is not really supported in the films and removes personal responsibility from the character, so it's not really something that I think is interesting narratively speaking. I never assumed that Exar Kun was possessed, nor Ulic Qel-Droma -- though both had material means by which their darkness was supposedly amplified: the amulet and the Sith poison, respectively. I think they both made choices that led them down their paths. Exar Kun seemed to be self absorbed from the start, whereas Ulic Qel-Droma was overconfident from the start, and spurred on by a desire for revenge for Master Arca.
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  19. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    May 10, 2004
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    so much for an external dark side :p don't believe a Sith spirit claiming to be THE dark side handing out funny Sith names and all so he can bribe wannabes till he is able to takeover their body out of their free stupid will

    internal dark side for the win. external is a myth
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  20. LivingJediDream Jedi Grand Master

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    I think dark side possession is something separate from the debate over an internal vs external dark side. Presuming that there is an external dark side, the idea that it is some sentient intellect that can possess people doesn't seem to fit. There may be a will of the Force -- and the jury's still out on whether that means the Force has an intellect -- there isn't a "dark will of the force." Unless the Jedi are completely off base about the Force being one for the intent of having a will, and there's two separate wills for each side of the Force -- but the only grounding for that would seem to be extrapolation based upon dark side possession.
  21. Matthew78 Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 16, 2006
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    Exar Kun was already arrogant and cocky, he was already showing signs of being speciest, racist and superior acting to others, sought different powers and was not humble at all, he was a broken man already on Yavin 4 and gave in, the Amulet must have had dark side powers inbued in it already, so he was drunkenly ensnared by it and gave in, he was already giving in and the amulet made it worse, once he got ahold of it he was turning to closely and could not resist anymore, he wanted what it had to offer and gave in, his life and path were already dark, his experience just prior made him lose it more too, the amulet and its dark power hooked him and he was turned, it would take a Miracle to get him back on the Light Side and he did not want to leave the Dark Side after he used it, he chose evil actions and the amulet was an evil device, it hooked him and he bit it.
  22. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    If there's no external Dark Side, how does one explain possession and Sith eyes?
  23. Jedi Ben Chosen One

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    Jul 19, 1999
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    Believing it's either-or is every bit a fallacy as claiming 100% internal or external. The films opt for both - that's why Anakin goes from 0-60 on the evil scale and is killing kiddies with abandon once he takes on the identity of Vader, yet he willingly opted for it but didn't really know the nature of the devil's bargain he was making.

    Considering the dark side as being primarily coercive isn't that big a jump either - consider Vader's statements that he must obey his master, it certainly works on possessing and controlling others.

    Yet, on the whole, there is very little actual evading of personal responsibility in SW. That shouldn't be surprising though as SW' axis of good and evil revolves upon the idea of freedom and those who would uphold or destroy it.
  24. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

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    May 10, 2004
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    not all sith got sith eyes though only very few did! Dooku did not have them f.e., so even movies are inconsistent there. so sith eyes are not a must.. they are, as the EU clarified merely an indication of overuse of the Force which decays the body and changes it.. ages it faster etc. one of the changes then would be (however fantasy-scientifically explainable) to get sith eyes from Force overdosed use. a jedi could get that too technically thus.

    posession is by Sith spirit, not by an external dark side. most posessions happen either by Master bodyhopping into the apprentice (see Banes try) or by sith spirit hiding in amulett/holocron posession wearer.. see what Kun did to his apprentices when he released spirits to inhabit them.

    no external dark side needed!
  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

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    Jul 19, 1999
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    So far, the only real out-right case of Sith possession is done by Kun, both to the Jedi he takes to Yavin and, millennia later, Kyp Durron.

    Although the Emperor certainly claimed to be able to displace souls from their bodies and threatened to do that to Anakin Solo as a babe.

    So yeah, it certainly isn't done directly by the dark side itself, but has been known to happen.