Lit Was Exar Kun possessed by the amulet?

I agree, it is no either-or but that requires people to think outside the box which is why often the either or terminology is used sadly because not many can think of unifying the extremes in their mind.

external dark side is a mirror of the internal dark side actually only. if you got darkness within you, it will be mirrored back to you by the Force (Luke dagobah cave: What is in there? Only what you take with you!) the Dark Side is a mirror.. it shows you what is in you.. if it scares you, well.. your fault 8) so basically the Dark Side is a part of each being (Mortis, Taoism, Ying&Yang) that needs to be balanced. but never can be destroyed. it is as natural as the light side (Dawn of the Jedi, also Mortis with dark being not evil but destruction, and light being creation, eternal cycles).


Edit: Most who fall to the dark side, critique the current state of the galaxy/etc. and want change. change needs to destroy what is and rebuild anew, if taking the easy path, thus destruction and the dark side rising/being used by these revolutionaries, be it out of good intentions or ill will.

 

The Amulet obviously had the dark side inbued in it already, the Sith made it, their holocrons have dark side powers, it is safe to assume that Exar Kun being darker in nature already was hooked by it and gave in to its powers, its what he wanted, more power, he never wanted to resist it, he got what he wanted, he pretended that he did not but he gave in right away so he really wanted more power, you get what you ask for.

 

Except we have those sudden and inexplicable personality changes Ceiran. We have Sidious giving Vader his name too, as if told by the dark side itself. We have places imbued with a sense of darkness, far in excess of anything any individual can bring themselves. If there's no external dark side, what of Korriban? This strange secular tendency to de-mystify SW doesn't really make much sense to me as it's every bit a part of it as tech, spaceships, blasters, planets, aliens and laser swords.

Thing is though, the dark side is no Machiavellian master planner, it's more like a crazy perpetually destructive drunk who's only object in life is to mess things up for other people.

Planning? Ah, you need the Sith for that!

 

How do we know this?

 

i could explain it but would you really want me to?

The Sith names... masters make them up I'd say. Because the scene was not serious enough for me. Most Sith had no Sith names, others kept real names, some took Sith names they chose themselves. Only few got their name as Vader did. So like with Sith eyes, the lack of conclusive continuity for all Sith (not counting wannabes) makes me see reason that there is no universal Sith name giving tradition. Some started once to take fancy names.. Revan as first probably, and others thought it cool and kept doing it in various ceremonies. Until the past was so shrouded that it became sith dogma or such but not really necessary.

You could also say Palpatine got the name from Sith spirits... they exist, he visited them on Korriban even in the tombs. Would make sense too. And the Force, and in this case the Dark Side is a mirror as I said above. thus the dark places are echoes of those who have been there. Energy can not cease to exist.. so if they die.. matter turns to energy and energy.. well keeps the taint of the former being. There is more than eyes could see. the spiritual plane (Luminious beings are we, not this crude matter) with its spirits, souls and more is tainted. Also the Force binds all things.. even plants, stones etc. so places and objects can have a taint too. basically all life, all there is and even what seems lifeless is liminious energy, the Force and the trails you leave like a pen on paper is your trainted trail.. you affect people, objects, as your lifeline journeys through the universe and leaves a mark. echoes. such echoes can affect other people visiting the place in return too.. like a stone thrown in water creates a wave that affects far away stuff too when the waves reach there.

 

We don't know that there's an intellect behind the dark side anymore than we know that there's an intellect behind the Force -- which we have seen characters speak of as having a will, but despite this it's unclear whether that's literally true or is simply a word for the Jedi's ignorance about the Force -- which is suggested in the ROTS novelization.

 

PS: But for a more detailed look at WHAT tainted places are.. reread NJO Traitor... the well below the Jedi Temple is a powerful place in the Force. it can be percieved as dark or light.. depending on who visits it. a mirror again, but one dangerous mirror for like Korriban, some mirrors are tainted still and only throw back very distorted images.

 

Its a little of both. The Dark Side can exist, and does exist apart from Force Users, because the Force itself exists apart from Force Users. However, at the exact same time the Force is created from the existence of life in the galaxy. Look at Korriban, a planet steeped in the Dark Side. Something that has lasted for centuries and will continue to last even when the Sith are extinct, as we've seen numerous times. However, why is the planet the way it is? Specifically because of the centuries Sith already spent living there and experimenting in the Dark Side there. There's nothing to say it was naturally like that. Considering the cave on Dagobah, and other places that can be classified as Force Nexus's, i'd say its likely it was once just a normal planet. The Dark Side itself isn't natural, but a perversion of the Force created by the acts of sentient beings. Once created however, it can exist, imprinted on places and objects through the hate and anguish of the original creator.

I see the personality changes that take place in some people when they give in to the Dark Side, as partly due to the corrupting influence of the Dark Side they're now using (Manifests in them changing into what could be seen as a completely different person) and partly due to the fact that they are no longer holder their darker emotions back. It'd be no different if any of us gave in to every dark and petty thought we ever had, and then proceeded to act on them.

 

I'm of the same mind. There is an external dark side, because life is generated by the Force, and life is capable of dark action or intent. Even if there was initially only an internal dark side, by virtue of the fact that the Force is generated by life, the Force itself is "stained" in the same way that these locations like the Dagobah cave are stained. The Force itself is incapable of light or dark; the life that generates it is, which is why it is represented in the Force.

Edit: In other words, people don't turn to the dark side because of the Force, the Force has a dark side because of people.

 

Would it be possible for the Jedi to remove Dark Side taints from places?

 

Isn't that what Thon did on the planet Ambria?

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Light

 

Exactly.

Darn, double posted.

 

I agree, though your wording can be read both ways which may be dangerous for some interpreting them wrong. the dark side is natural, that is canon. the perversion part is only when it gets over the top and unbalanced against the light (mortis!)

 

oil and water.. it is possible, but it is easier to taint than to untaint

 

I think I agree but am not completely sure if you mean it the way I read it.

we need to be clear that light and dark mean creation and destruction, not good and evil. that is two different things. a jedi uses light and dark. but refrains from dark whenever possible, but for defense of life he uses the dark side if he has to kill f.e. to save others from a threat. that is a "good" use of the dark side. if he though kills for fun or evil intent, it is "bad/evil". though good and evil are subjective terms and depend on point of view too much to be of any help. some consider stuff good others consider bad. so talking dark and light side as destruction and creation is more consistent and makes more sense. I hope we can keep thus the discussions on that base to not confuse with ambigious terms and definitions.

 

The Dark Side is natural in that it comes from the actions of various beings, but beyond that it doesn't exist naturally in nature. A place with the Dark Side doesn't just spring up. It's filled with darkness because a dark action took place there, or a dark person died there and therefore left the place tainted.

 

Makes me want to see pre-tainting Korriban

 

Palpatine and the Rakata seem to be cases of internal Dark Side. That Jedi who fell do to visiting a tainted place (mentioned in the Darth Plagueis novel) is external.

 

Oh that's just my take but based on the tendency of those who go to the dark side to suddenly start raping baby bunnies and frying kittens when they've previously demonstrated not even warning signs of such behavior!

If you ask what does the dark side do? What do its advocates do? The answer tends to be wreck and destroy.

 

Which is pretty much what Luke lays out at the end of TUF.

 

In response to Sith Names and Darth Titles;

The earliest reported Darth was Darth Naga Sadow. The biggest thing that I've noticed in terms of the use of Sith names, is that they are used typically when the time calls for it, or as a way to offer a dark baptism in a sense to some of the more secretive lords. Though the term had been abandoned for the competition that it encouraged, all of Bane's legacy used Sith names and Darth Titles, but a large part of that was also so that they could keep their identities secret while working from shadows and to distinguish himself from the many Sith Lords that were working together. In ToR the title Darth was given to high members of the Empire. Exar Kun on the other hand was trying to recruit Jedi while seeming non-threatening, and acting like his Sith revelations were merely logical conclusions that everyone would rationally understand if you follow me here, and look into my eyes, and watch me smash this mysterious object, you'll get it. Switching his name could have been bad marketing. I personally believe that the title of Darth should belong to whoever the current ruling DARk Lord of the SiTH is, which we can clearly see was Exar Kun.

The dark side is a tricky thing in terms of how it will try and appeal to you, but one common theme yoda pointed out is that it finds your fears. Exar Kun felt like he had been lied to and that his education was flawed. So the Dark Side showed him power, and his first priority was to change the educational system for force users. Ulic Qel-Droma pursued the mandalorians and having a strong military, but the only real goal we saw from Exar Kun was education reform, because he felt betrayed by his teachers. Reading the current Dawn of the Jedi series which discusses an education valuing balance in the force, it could be understandable that Exar Kun feels like he is out of balance with a standard that many people followed for thousands of years. So he acts in an extreme manner.

Darth Caedus was very similar to Exar Kun in that he was a dark side user, and was making some really big moves for the galaxy, but if you really look at his intentions, it were to create a safer life for his daughter and try and end war. Palpatine on the other hand was just a jerk.

I also don't think he was possessed because Sith spirits typically like to be more obvious when they are controlling someone. As you can see when Exar Kun posseses.

 

I meant why don't you think the Dark Side plans?

 

Ever watched Breaking Bad? there you got your darkside and how it works

 

When, if ever, will the Jedi smarten up and remove the Dark Side taints from Dromund Kaas and Korriban?