Was Hiroshima an act of Terrorism?

"OBL was also at war with America. Think about it. "

Ossama bin Ladden is not a government. He has no regular army. His killers don't have uniforms. He never acted in an official capacity.

By your logic, I can declare war on France, bomb a shopping center, and it would be completly legal.

 

When you talk of WW2 you also have to remember that there weren't any smart weapons then. To successfully destory a target you had to send in a few hundred bombers and destroy the civilian areas along with the industrial areas you were targeting. Both nuclear attacks killed around 20,000 people outright and more later on through radiation and cancer. The allied attacks on Dresden and Tokyo killed 80,000 - 100,000 people each. In the pacific theater the US developed a strategy of fire bombing japanese cities and burning them to the ground in an effort to force a surrender. Japanese cities at the time were made of wood. The nuclear attacks were simply more for shock effect since it took only one bomber to the work of 1000.

 

Remember that Japan was/is also very heavily populated in a confined area. Because of that, their manufacturing facilities were in hte middle of their civilian centers. Space was a premium. You could not strike at a military target (such as a factory) without hitting civilian targets. The civilians become human shields. In wartime, sometimes it is necessary to allow them to be harmed in order to safeguard the lives of others.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Bush said Sept 11 was an Act of War.

 

"Bush said Sept 11 was an Act of War."

Perhaps, but no war was officially declared. To do so would require the unanimous decision on the part of Congress to declare war on a nation state. Bush's words were used to motivate and rally the American people behind his agenda, for better or for worse.

And Al Qaeda and other terrorist networks are not nation states. They cannot declare war... no more than the KKK can declare war on Alabama. This is not a war. It's a manhunt on a grand scale.

It's good that we question the actions of the past so we may learn from them. But we must also understand the events and mentality surrounding those actions. WWII was like no other war in history. It was quite literally a "World" war, that had been raging in full bloom for 7 years by 1945. The World was tired. They wanted peace. Our government made the best decision it could to expedite that peace.

In such a grand scale war, civilians will die. there is no escaping it. How many brits died in the battle for Britain? How many Germans died in the taking of Berlin? How many civilian prisoners died in concentration camps? This is where they coined the phrase, "War is Hell". It had to be stopped. the remnants of the Axis Powers had to be put down, as they would not go quietly.

Yes, when put in perspective, I think the bombs were sadly justified.

 

If I'm not mistaken, didn't other "Terroism" acts occur in WWII?

When the Germans bombed England, or when the Allies bombed Germany. Only in those cases, the Atomic bomb was not created yet. But they still dropped bombs on cities. (I am picturing scenes of dozens of bombs being dropped, and not having any real accuracy, as well as many cities in ruin.)

I grew up in a village that was devastated by the American terror bombings. They happened in nearly every major German city. Mine put up a pretty good fight. Others were slaughters. The British, the Americans, and the Nazis all committed acts of terrorism in that war. But, that doesn't make it right. The Americans took it much farther than the others when they used nuclear weapons.

 

I dunno if this has been said but did you ever try to build an atomic bomb? You need vast resourcesto build one and we only had three, it would've taken another month, I believe, to make some more enriched uranium to make another one. Also if we had invaded Japan directly, there would be no Japan left today. They would fight to the last person.

OBL was also at war with America. Think about it.

Holy wars aren't official wars and since he place to control he can't very well declare war in the official sense. Think about it. Jihad's are for the most part personal wars. Not actual wars.

 

"The Americans took it much farther than the others when they used nuclear weapons."

If the Germans developed the technology first they would have used it too...and no one would be debating the morality of it now..

The simple fact is that if Japan was invaded obviously more of the Allies soldiers would have died and more Japanese soldiers would have died and then more Japanese civilians would have died. The Allied soldiers would have had swarms of 75 year old Japanese men attacking them with pitchforks and shovels, a few of them with guns. I could see the very real possibility that nearly the entire Japanese population could have been killed.

I mean hell, every once in a while we run into Japanese soldiers who have been stranded and they're STILL fighting the war. We almost literally would have had to fight to the last man.

 

AD60

I ask this. Why were the Americans, British, and let's not forget Russians, involved in WWII?

Who started the war? What were the Allies trying to do?

American "terror" bombings would not have been needed if a certain country wasn't hell bent on taking over Europe.

War is not pretty. America went as far as it needed to in order to put an end to the war, and save as many AMERICAN lives as possible.

Latre!

 

Oh, the bombing of london was a mistake. Hitler gave orders not to bomb it unless he ordered it so. Blame it on the dumbarse German who didn't know what the hell he was doing.

 

Yeah whatever Grand Admiral 60, your just an Anti-American everything, anything we do your against, I remember you talking trash when I first came to these boards about America. I think your Canadian aren't you, just because your country does nothing in military matters doesn't mean your perfect either. I agree that the A-Bombs were conducted wrong, but much more people would have died if it wasn't dropped, not only on America's side but also Britain and Japan and possibly even the Soviet Union. Do I think it's right, no, but horrible things happen in war, and the best way to end a war is quick and fast without as many casulties as possible.

 

You might wanna edit that post.

 

I think I should point out DN, before AD60 does, that Canadian soliders were over in Afganastan, and we accidently dropped a bomb on them.

Anyway, if we weren't debating the dropping of the A-Bomb on Japan, we would be debating why we didn't in order to finish the war faster, and save more lives. (For example, why didn't we just finish off Saddam when we had the chance.)

But then again, I wonder why America is being made to look like Terrorist here. As I mentioned before. America didn't start the war. We just put an end to it.

Latre!

 

If you consider ending the worst war that ever was and will ever be an act of terrorism, then I guess Sept. 11 was a blessing.

 

I did a research paper on whether or not dropping the atomic bombs was necessary and every resource I went to said that the U.S. knew Japan was going to surrender before we even dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima. If all 20 or so of the resources are correct in that we knew they would surrender then it is an act of terrorism. You cannot justify the bombing of Nagasaki in my opinion. We never should've dropped an atomic bomb on Nagasaki. Japan was going to surrender after the first bomb on Hiroshima.


Either way in my opinion the atomic bomb is what will cause the destruction of the Earth. Ever since the A-bomb all the superpowers have been making even better bombs that will eventually be used and will be used to wipe entire countries off the planet. Hopefully I don't live to see that day.

 

I grew up in a village that was devastated by the American terror bombings. I know of a friends grandfather who grew-up in london "in the 40's" Who "actually" whitnessed the "terror" attacks from germany.

Finger pointing about war time will get you nowhere. Its war, its a fight. IMHO

plus I think this thread is just an attack on americans by canadians. It has no real meaning or argument. I mean wtf does 9/11 have to do with hiroshima. They are both tradgedies.

explain to me Carbonknight, how are the two related. I'm confused on your inital post.

 

trying to hijack the 'hot button' issue of terrorism by labeling every pet grievence you have by the label is philosophically LAZY.

Not only is this a weak argument, but it is completely transparent. The sleight of hand to label bombardment of Germany as 'American Terror bombing' by AT60 wins the prize for *most blatent and lazy example of trying to hijack the word TERROR(ISM) for an anti-american agenda* for today. Congrats!

 

I will quote Captain Willard from Apocalypse Now when it comes to trying to say dropping the Atomic Bomb on Japan was an act of Terrorism.

"Accussing someone of murder in this place is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500."

That is the best way I can sum of this argument/debate.

 

trying to hijack the 'hot button' issue of terrorism by labeling every pet grievence you have by the label is philosophically LAZY.

Not only is this a weak argument, but it is completely transparent. The sleight of hand to label bombardment of Germany as 'American Terror bombing' by AT60 wins the prize for *most blatent and lazy example of trying to hijack the word TERROR(ISM) for an anti-american agenda* for today. Congrats!

Amen.

 

The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were a painful decision for President Truman, but ultimately they were acts of compassion designed to SAVE MILLIONS OF LIVES on BOTH the Allied side AND the Japanese.

 

I had an immediate opinion when I first saw this thread but I wanted to review my facts first and then consider the opinions expressed here.

I agree with the majority of your opinions, that the bombings were justified and necessary.

I disagree with Niktos Rule that Nagasaki was unnecessary. The Japanese were still arrogant after Hiroshima and they were not going to surrender.

 

I'd have to quote "War is Hell"

There is no way to "play war". It'll be bloody and long, no matter what kind of weapon you use. Hiroshima, though tragic, probably saved more lives than it took, though most of the lives taken were civilian. BUT you have to look at it this way. The Japaneese government was an Imperial nation, bent on conquest and expansion. They didn't care weither or not they were hurting innocents, and I'd bet that if Japan would have had Atomic weaponry, they would have used it in a heartbeat.

Japan would have done anything to win...you notice that there pilots were trained to point the nose at the deck of a rolling aircraft carrier and to plow right down into it. If not aggressively attacked, they would have pushed forward with everything that they had, they would have lost countless soldiers, as well as taking the lives of our men.

You also have to remember that WE didn't innitiate the aggression. When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, we weren't even in the war...in fact, we were trying to keep our own country together...just comming out of the depression...we didn't have time or money to worry about the world's problems. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Japan bombed Civilian hospitals and homes, and Japan committed acts of "War Crime" against POW...I believe that our retailation was worth it, and I beleive that had we not done so, then the war might have been drawn out for quite a while longer.

 

Didn't the japanese try and send ballons with bombs on them to hit the californian coast, or something to that affect to kill american civilians.

Or what if "oh my god".
one would have floated up to British Columbia and detonated. Oh but I foget canada doesn't get involved in such things. (a little dig for CK and AT60)

 

Lets also not forget the Cuban Missle Crisis of the 1960's; it is entirely possible if the Japanese did surrendor to either the US or Soviet Union before the bombs were dropped, the evolution of the A-bomb would still likely develop as it did in our world, and the confrontation with the USSR over Cuba would likely have caused the worlds annihlation, or it could have happened sooner, we could have used the bombs in Korea, in turn causing the Soviets to enter the conflict and use the bomb on the US and western Europe.

Its amazing how the ultimate weapon of destruction probably saved more lives than it took, isnt it?

Oh and once again, the Japanese were not trying to surrendor the USSR they were trying to get the Soviets to turn on the US and UK hoping to play the developing Cold War as it was starting.

 

Th eJapanese did try to send balloons over to the us to bomb us. Some of them actually landed over here.
This is my first post here and as oppossed to my other anti american stances on other issues, i fully support the decsion to drop the bombs. The projected death tolls of a land invasion of Japan were estemated to be over 10 million by some. This is both Japanese and American. Japanese culture is very nationalistic and average citizens would have had no problem dying for their country. Just judging by the tenacious holds they had on some pacific islands, it is easy to imagine how ferociuos they would have defended their homeland.

While some revisionist history is justified, this is not.