Was Hiroshima an act of Terrorism?

Well, if you have such problem with this thread being off topic, then why don't you just avoid. I wouldn't classify it as of topic, but as a growing discussion. I don't see a problem with that. People are debating and arguing over their opinions in a civilized way. This thread is not of topic because flamming, spamming, trolling, etc.

If this thread bothers you so much, why don't you PM a mod about it? I don't think it does, I just think you're like so many other members that want to be a mod or something, so even though they don't have pretty colors with their name, they go around acting like it, and feel they must tell everyone that they're in the wrong somehow.

 

I was talking to anyone who wants to live under the freedom of the United States, and yet is not willing to fight to keep it that way, nor offer thanks that there are people that put their life on the line to protect that person who doesn't care.

 

Just curious, Because I was talking about something completly different, although I agree with you.

Since your post was right after mine I thought you were talking to me.

nevermind my brain is not working correctly today.

 

Last night I saw a documentary on Harry Truman. I don't remember if is was this thread or anyther one where people were saying that he should be tried for crimes in the UN, but you have got to know one thing about the decision Harry Truman made to drop the bomb on Japan. He was given NO alternatives. They didn't even tell him that many of the scientists who made the bomb were then against their use. He and everyone surrounding him all thought that this was a war against evil, and the bombs MUST be used. He once wrote in his journal prior to the act that he was going to use them on a military targets only, but he was fooling himself.

It was only MUCH after the fact that people doubted the decision.

Another thing, if the American people knew he had a bomb that would have ended the war sooner and NOT used it, he would have been impeached.

The idea that you could try Harry Truman for dropping the bomb is totally idiotic, because it was not him that really made the decision. It was the American people. I think we should try FDR for war crimes before Truman. Why don't we go after Churchhill too?

I find this debate totally pointless and stupid. If the US had not fought WWII, we would still be ruled by tyrants. But war is evil, but a necissary one. The US was not perfect in the fighting of the war, but it was the right thing to do. If you want to bash on the US, choose another war. WW2 is the best one we fought.

Oh, and as for the gruesome pictures of radioactive Japanise(I would say "japs" because I can't spell, but then I would get banned because I would be accused of being a racist) I would advise you to see the footage from the battles of Okinawa. That is much more gruesome, and the idea of the US invading islands so much bigger with that kind of resistanse is sickening.

 

I do know that I wouldn't kill somebody else's son to save mine.

I pity you. I really do. If the world 50 years ago was filled with the likes of you, we would be speaking German and saying "Hail Hitler" and pledging our allegince to the Swastika.

Sometimes I believe that this country needs to be in a really huge *** serious war in order for our younger generations to truely appriciate everything they have today thanks to our ancestors that fought for it with their blood and sweat!

 

Look, Mr. Comander Thrawn, America was not in danger during World War II. No American fought to save other Americans. The reason we fought was to stop our ideals from going down the drain. That was okay to do as far as I am concerned.

The problem comes when we disregard our ideals such as the basic rights of each individual, blowing everyone indescriminately to kingdom come.

Just because they did it to us does not mean we should do it to them.

 

"Look, Mr. Comander Thrawn, America was not in danger during World War II. No American fought to save other Americans. The reason we fought was to stop our ideals from going down the drain. That was okay to do as far as I am concerned."

That has to be the biggest crock I've ever read in my life. We and the rest of the world was in grave danger. "No American's fought to save other Americans" I dare you to say that to any WWII Vet. Go back and read your history before making statements like that.

I guess you forgot that if Japan had hit their main objective targets at Pearl Harbor which were our Aircraft Carriers we wouldn't have been able to launch any counter attacks or keep the Japanese from invading the west coast of America. Thank God our Carriers were not there.

Another thing to keep in mind was we were attack first not the other way around, and another thing to keep in mind was that Germany was designing LONG RANGE missiles and Atomic bomb themselves. Judging by what you said we should have not gone to war against Japan or the Nazi's. Could you imagine what would have happened if the Nazi's had won?

 

"Just because they did it to us does not mean we should do it to them."

Yeah, but by doing it to them, you're keeping them from doing to others.

 

Look, Mr. Comander Thrawn, America was not in danger during World War II. No American fought to save other Americans. The reason we fought was to stop our ideals from going down the drain. That was okay to do as far as I am concerned.

Ah America WAS in danger...Pearl Harbor, the bombs that the Japanese were dropping from balloons onto the Contenintal U.S...Protecting our way of life...but we were protecting our Ideals-so you're right there one point for you

The problem comes when we disregard our ideals such as the basic rights of each individual, blowing everyone indescriminately to kingdom come.

The word indescriminately is used wrong here. I believe we did discriminate...we didn't drop bombs on Canadians, (though I think it might have been funny) [that's a joke, Focker ] We instead waged war on a nation that INITIATED the war on us. We were fighting back...we were fighting an enemy that was NOT going to stop. You are wrong there...sorry, no points


Just because they did it to us does not mean we should do it to them.

Where do you get this? Are you not glad they did? because if they didn't your lifestyle, and your RIGHT to have such a misinformed and extremely ignorant opinion would not exist, because we would be under a tyranny that you can not immagine. What race are you? Because if you are not White European non Jewish desent, then you would be subjugated to the worst form of segrigation...genocide. We were morally right...we had an obligation to stand behind our morals, no matter the cost. Our brave men and women went out there, fought, and died so that you would have the right to your lousy opinion.

You should get on your knees, and praise God that he made men and women that would do that for you...even after you spit at their sacrifice.

If I seem a little passionate, I am. I love my country, and I love what we stand for. I love Baseball, I love Cars, I love the basic freedoms that you do not realize DON'T exist around the world. We are blessed to have a nation where people can have opinions, even if they mock the freedoms that allow them to express it. Let me ask you somthing...how do you, JediFlyer, propose we protect our freedoms, our Basic, God given rights?

 

Could you imagine what would have happened if the Nazi's had won?

I know! They sorta made a movie about it too! Its about this Stealth Bomber equipped with a nuke and some new tech accidently goes sends it back in time to Nazi Germany and the Germans use it to nuke Washington off the map which changes history. Germany wins the war and America was conquered and this guy isnt affected by the change and tries to fix things by going back in time and destroying the Stealth Bomber before it can fly to Washington. I forgot the title of that movie.


Anyway, I agree DARTHPIGFEET, you do need to go reread your history books Jediflyer.

Not only were the Germans designing long range missiles and atomic bombs, they were also planning to invade America from Mexico. Their U-Boats have been seen off the coast of Florida and all along the eastern seaboard.

Who the heck do you think got us to the moon? The very same German who was designing Hitler's rockets.

 

Oh yeah I did see that movie. Weird.

 

There's this other movie called "Fatherland" in which the US only went to war against Japan. It takes place in the 1960s where Nazi Germany had succeeded in taking over the UK and the USSR. It's pretty weird.

BTW, weren't the Japanese planning some sort of attack against the Panama canal using submarine launched fighter bombers?

 

Hmm...I'll have to check out that movie. I love WWII AUs, I think their interesting and reminds me how close sometimes we came to losing the war.


Never heard about Japan using submarine launched bombers. Is that even possible? But I do know that the Japanese would have used the Jet Stream to send balloons equipped with bombs across the Pacific into America and Canada.

 

The Japanese DID send "balloon bombs" into the Northern US and Canada. They succeeded in killing some family in Oregon with one.

Now that could actually be argued as terror bombing since it served absolutely no military purpose and was merely done to try and demoralize the US public.



But yes, I'm pretty sure the Japanese had plans for an aerial attack on the Panama Canal. They built prototypes of the submarine/aircraft carrier thing and the aircraft. They were partially collapsible and were housed in this large compartment aft of the sub's conning tower. They were float planes by necessity due to the lack of a catapult or flight deck.

 

The Japanese DID send "balloon bombs" into the Northern US and Canada. They succeeded in killing some family in Oregon with one.

Well that tells ya how much the History Channel tells. I didnt know they actually used em and actually succeeded in killing Americans. Ha, learned something new.

 

If they had successfully engineered such underwater carriers, which would have taken a great deal of resource and skill, the Pacific theater would have been changed drastically.

Though, you could also say that if the Germans had lasers, they would have won.

 

Have you ever seen the movie Red Dawn? It's about the Cold war, and what would have happend had the Soviets landed in the U.S, and began to push from California towards Washington...it's an interesting story about the U.S being occupied.

 

Yeah I saw that. A bunch of High School students fought back.

 

See, I'm not crazy!

Aichi M6A1 "Seiran"

 

Yeah Ronald Reagan Loved that movie "Red Dawn".

 

Gees, it seems my remarks got everyone exited.

Just so you know, I know my history just fine. The attack on Pearl Harbor was not intendened by the Japanese to start a war with the U.S. What they were trying to do was knock out our fleet in case at some future date we decided to stop the expanding empire. That doesn't make what they did right, however, and I believe we were in the right in going to war with them. Where we went wrong is when we decided to take the war to the people of the country, killing many women and children in our bombing raids. I'm not just talking about the atom bombs either. I'm talking about waves of B-17s over Germany and the firebombings in Japan that partially destroyed dozens of their cities.

I also think you took some of my remarks the wrong way. The stuff I am taking a stand on here is how many people think it is okay for us to kill innocents if our enemy is killing innocent Americans. What I am trying to say is that American lives are not worth more than innocent lives in some other country.

With that said, I believe we were in the right to fight World War II to stop the Japanese and German expansion and the atrocities that went along with it. I just dispute the fact that we were right to kill innocents in the cities we bombed.

 

I agree with you that all innocents are worth the same...but I'll have to tell you, that in war, Innocents WILL get hurt...it's enevitable.

 

"The attack on Pearl Harbor was not intendened by the Japanese to start a war with the U.S. What they were trying to do was knock out our fleet in case at some future date we decided to stop the expanding empire."

I'm pretty sure the Japanese understood that attacking the US fleet would be regarded as an act of war and would start a war. The trick was that the Japanese hoped to severely limit our ability to fight them. They realized, correctly, that they could not win a war against America. This was mostly due to the surperior industrial capabilities of the US. If for no other reason, the US would've won from simple attrition. By destroying the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor they'd be breaking an arm and gouging out an eye. They hoped that this, combined with a storming of the Phillipines would convince the US that they couldn't win and force them to sue for peace.

After Pearl, the USN had to hold the line with what they had left until a brand new Navy could be constructed. Thankfully the US carrier force was not present to be bombed, and the submarines at Pearl were left relativley unscathed. Without them, the Japanese plan would probably have succeeded.

 

Well, as many people have said already WWII did not allow for precision strikes of any kind. The only way to get that chemical factory or munitions dump was the bomb the hell out of everything. I suppose you could send fighter bombers in for a low-level bombing run but that would'n't be fool-proof and besides...talk about suicide missions...


So you could decide not to bomb at all, but just have to keep fighting the enemy at full strength, he having no defficiency in his ability to keep pumping out arms and armor. That'd be a VERY slow and costly way to win a war, in both material and human costs.

 

The problem I have with Hiroshima is that it should have been a last resort. The U.S. could have detonated a bomb on an uninhabited island first and then told Japan, "this is what you get if you don't surrender".
But they just dropped the atom bomb with little to no warning. Then did it again.