Was it a good idea to include R2D2 and C3P0 in the prequel trilogy?

I'm not really sure what I think about it. I remember I was surprised when I found out they would be TPM, because there's nothing about the backstory, at least how it is eluded to in the OT that nessesitates their inclusion, and in some spots it makes the continuity a tad questionable.

At the same time, would it be a SW movie without them?


I'm open to all opinions on the matter.

 

I think it was important to emotionally tie in the audience to the story. Although there are more important characters from the OT in the PT, they are played by different actors (except Ian, but he looked different) and there would nothing to visually tie the movies together. They are important characters and I believe that had they not been in there, we'd be posting questions like, "Should Lucas have put in the droids to make the movie feel more like Star Wars?"

 

Quite possible.

I'm not outwardly saying they Should not be in the movies, I'm just trying to look at it from both angles.

 

I understand. i think it's a good question, that is just my thought on it.

 

I think they were needed.
The two of them are icons of Star Wars, and when we see them on screen, it really bridges the gap between trilogies. It is the same bickering droids which watch the entire story along with the audience. By the end of the saga, they evoke such emotions, because the audience has been along with them for the entire ride.

I'm glad they are present, and couldn't imagine any SW film without them. In fact I think in many cases they were under used. In Menace we only see 3P0 for a few scenes, I would've liked to see him a little bit more.

-Seldon

 

I agree with you there. And sounds like niether is in ROTS very much.

 

True from the sounds of it they wont be in ROTS much but think about it. If people watch them in episode order than right after ROTS they will watch ANH which has them in almost every scene! lol

Yeah they most definitly should've been in the PT.

 

Yeah, their inclusion was mostly an esthetical decision, to maintain their status as the "narrators" of the Star Wars saga. R2 saves the day in every episode, making him the undisputed hero of the saga, and providing a clever running joke, as he fails in the final moments of ROTJ. (but still manages to block a blaster shot that was aiming for han. )

 

R2, I felt was a great addition and brilliantly handled as a character by Lucas. The whole deal's only half good to me. I like seeing them together again but in the end it serves no purpose and distracts from the new characters meant to be the stars of these new eps. On the AotC commentary, Lucas says that he always has to find ways to include them into the story. I wonder why he feels that way, but whatever. So I doubt he needed to or really had any preconcieved place for them at all in his original outline. They're just such icons of star wars phenomenon that to not have them would be un...traditional, just like not having some cool lightsaber duel at the end would not be tolerated. If he made the films in order, there's no doubt in my mind we'd see Yoda in episode 4, (hey maybe he will put him in for the next release.) how about the emperor too? It leads elsewhere...

Was Beru a good idea to include episode 2? No. She could have been left out and no one would care. No big deal. Less money to pay an actor, or in her case an extra. Same with threepio.

I get the feeling that Lucas meant well by including the droid as Anakin's summer project besides building pods, but it's so obviously a nod to the OT to have the entire movie stop so that threepio could walk around and act like threepio, to have Anakin point out the obvious "he's not finished yet" to have threepio pop up again in episode 2 and be stolen by Anakin, who seems to have not care much for him, for him to become a sad joke rather than a useful addition in the next one may not have been good for anyone, new or old fans.

Bless Daniels for being so cool about his character getting dragged around and tortured in episode 2. It's kinda sad that even in the PT he can't escape such a fate. He certainly didn't deserve it.

Would I have milked myself if that protocol droid on the trade fed ship was threepio, oh yes I would have. In the game, Lego Star wars, the jedi use the droid to help them get down to the planet since it's the only one who knows the ship's codes and such. That's just my little fanboy dream, nothing more. Anakin building threepio is ok. he's trying to do something cool for his mom. It show's he selfless etc. A little redundant, but whatever...

 

I agree with pretty much what Seldon said. They are integral to the whole saga, as they are as much narrators of the story as they are companions. And in a way, it wouldn't feel like Star Wars without them.

R2-D2 is indeed the real hero of the saga -- proving that short and fat people can be heroes after all!

The only quibbles I have with them being in the PT is the only fact that they are underused, and the majority of the time (although I can't say about ROTS until I see it) they don't share screentime enough, and when they are together, there doesn't seem to be enough bickering between. That was one thing I enjoyed about the two characters in the OT...they were like The Odd Couple, and they were always fun to watch.

 

The only problem with the narrator thing is that number 1 we know a memory wipe has to come into play at some point in Ep3, in addition, even if it didn't the droids are present for most of the main story, where as in the OT they are. In esb and ROTJ when the heros split up so do the droids. But all in all I agree.

Great post btw Deeysew

 

I may be out on a limb, but I thought it was better to have them only in IV, V, and VI. They were given nothing but comedic roles in AOTC.

I thought having them in the PT made the universe seem REALLY small, if you know what I mean.

 

I think it WOULD have been a good idea to include them, IF Lucas could've found a better way of implementing them.

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't like finding out where C-3PO came from. I think the whole "narrator" concept works better if the droids don't have a start or an end. I also think they should have been together from the START of Episode I. Not to say that I don't care how they came to be together, but it really felt forced. They should have stumbled into the story together the way they do in ANH. But I really shouldn't get going on "should haves" with regard to the PT.

I hate the idea of the droids following along for the story of the PT, then having their memorie wiped to explain their ignorance in the OT. For one thing, R2 doesn't need his memory wiped; it could just be that he's being quiet about the whole thing; he doesn't always tell everything to Threepio.

But I do think Lucas sort of painted himself into a corner when he created two characters who give no signs of knowing anything about the OT's backstory, then says that he's going to include them IN the OT's backstory.

 

*bites tongue*

A hundred years after ROTJ, R2 recounts the saga to a Shaman of the Whills, for inclusion in the Journal of the Whills, so I guess he didn't get a memory wipe.

And yes, he wasn't present at every scene, but that also goes for the OT, so some parts of the story are second hand accounts.

Maybe he also exaggerated his own heroic contribution.


Joking aside, I think this is a more interesting way to look at the saga: as a dramatized (and maybe flawed) retelling of a true story, rather than aknowledging that it's just fantasy, and then turn around and analyze it to death with real world physics and psychology.

 

I get the feeling that Lucas meant well by including the droid as Anakin's summer project besides building pods, but it's so obviously a nod to the OT to have the entire movie stop so that threepio could walk around and act like threepio, to have Anakin point out the obvious "he's not finished yet" to have threepio pop up again in episode 2 and be stolen by Anakin, who seems to have not care much for him, for him to become a sad joke rather than a useful addition in the next one may not have been good for anyone, new or old fans.

I agree with this to a certain extent. The notion of positioning C-3P0 as Anakin's creation, a matter that is often scoffed at and dismissed as bad writing, doesn't particularly bother me in its abstract form; I think that many people objected to the commonplace trappings of such an historic figure in the "Star Wars" canon. One issue inherent to the prequels is that by telling the story in reverse, Lucas has created a situation in which mythological premises, characters, and ideas are inevitably going to become de-mystified, particularly as he seeks to present two dynamic and contrasting "eras." From my perspective, I am more concerned with C-3P0's presentation in the film, which as you say, Deeysew, seems to be more of an afterthought, and therefore underwhelms the viewer's expectations. In other words, it's a bright idea that wasn't properly developed in a manner which would ultimately allow it to pay off in a more satisfactory fashion (that doesn't include the upcoming film, as I am unable to form an opinion on such matters at this time).

As for the droids' inclusion in the prequel films, I agree with the previous posters who indicated that it is important to introduce some "constant" fixtures into this universe so that there is a moderate level of familiarity and thematic/character consistency to the gradually unfolding story arc. C-3P0 and R2-D2 are famously inspired by Generals Nagakura and Tadokoro (played by Takeshi Shimura and Susumi Fujita, respectively), ancillary inhabitants of Kurosawa's great film, "The Hidden Fortress." They occupy the fringes or perimeter of the picture, yet it is through them that we view the story, or at least identify with on a more personal level. Fussy, bumbling characters who squabble endlessly between bursts of feigned prowess, Nagakura and Tadokoro act as perfect foils to the more immediate and dramatic aspects of the plot, as well as the heroic, but distant, Toshiro Mifune, who portrays General Makabe. The droids in "Star Wars" serve a similar purpose, and do so adequately within the confines of the story. Lucas isn't always particularly good with shifting perspectives (a technique which is possibly out-of-place in this sort of film - I don't expect, for example, Techine's "Les Voleurs"), and while I feel it would have been a monumental mistake to focus more on (specifically) C-3P0 and (less so) R2-D2, it would have been interesting to have these characters exist more naturally in the story, instead of being wedged in at a relatively awkward angle, so that their presence conforms to the parameters of the films themselves. As it stands, these things feel a bit artificially contrived, and yet.....their roles could have been considered more thoroughly, but I find that, with the exclusion of Artoo's clunky "introduction" in "The Phantom Menace", I am willing to overlook any material which might otherwise be deemed as "problematic."

 

I maintain my position that the droids won't feel wedged in to those who will watch the saga in chronological order. Maybe it will lead to some questionable situations in the OT, but I think the negative effects will be minimal, and far outweighed by the advantages of a natural story progression.

 

They were given nothing but comedic roles in AOTC.

Yet Artoo saved Padmé's life in the droid factory...

 

"I maintain my position that the droids won't feel wedged in to those who will watch the saga in chronological order."

Which is the very reason they will ALWAYS feel wedged in to many people, myself included.

 

Plo_Keen is right on the money. R2 HAD to be in every one and I feel that C3P0's backstory was a nice way to add depth to his character. They didn't add too much to TPM and AotC, even though R2 did save Padme. But, the fact remains that R2 is the reason why, in a non-fiction sense, we know about Star Wars. So he had to be in them. Plus, if nothing else, it helps us bridge the two trilogy's.

Oh, as for memory-wipes...anybody read the end of Labrynth of Evil? Good foreshadowing there! But, I am of the side that thinks R2 didnt' get a memory wipe and he is a major part of bringing out the "A New Hope"

 

Having Anakin be 3P0's creator was a poor choice. It would've been cooler if his story was like R2's, where he just had a job on a ship or something as all droids do, and then just happened to fall into service with the heroes.

 

I think C3PO being built by Ani-Vader was a seriously tongue in cheek "in-joke." It was almost like GL was saying, "Oh, look what I can do. I am a god to my universe so DARTH VADER built C3PO!" C3PO really has become a bit of fuddy duddy in the PT. He is all bad jokes; however, I think GL knows they are bad jokes and that?s why he has C3PO tell them. There is no way that GL ever thought C3PO's bad puns in the arena were anything but bad puns. I think bad puns are funny and get a kick out of that stuff in ATOC. I think GL does too. Maybe GL knows having the droids in the PT is not a good story decision, but he can't not put them in there because they are the second most recognizable characters in the saga (behind Vader). His remedy for this is to give them nothing but cheeky in jokes and bad puns. Whether you like it or not, I think that is why he put them in there.

 

Tyranus brings up a good question: how do you include them and NOT de-mystify them to some degree?

I think having Anakin build 3PO was too much, but what could Lucas do that wouldn't demystify him to a degree?

Even if you put him in place of that TF doid in the start of TPM, it still fills in the mystery.

As for their roles in the PT, I disliked 3PO's role in AOTC and in TPM. R2 fared better.

 

I don't mind the way it actually plays out, it's fine (save for a couple of eye-brow-raising moments).

However, a part of me kind of wishes they were introduced as a pair in Episode I. Like someone else said, maybe have them working together on Padmé's ship or something, but they're already friends.

Dunno.

 

When I was little (like 3-4 years old) I thought R2 was the star of Star Wars and all these other people were taking away from his screen time! I think it's great that they were included in the PT, although some of 3PO's lines were cheesy ("Oh, this is such a drag!"). It'll be very interesting to see how much they know after ROTS (can't say anything more without posting spoilers)...

 

I maintain my position that the droids won't feel wedged in to those who will watch the saga in chronological order. Maybe it will lead to some questionable situations in the OT, but I think the negative effects will be minimal, and far outweighed by the advantages of a natural story progression.

Considering the matter objectively, I think that your assertion has a good deal of validity, Plo_Koen. I believe that because most of us have become intimately familiar with the original films prior to having viewed the prequels, the notion of the droids being "wedged in" becomes more prominent - therefore, it is an obvious target that is often held to criticism and scorn. If you were, however, to watch the films in order from Episode I to VI, it would become evident that the droids are ancillary characters who remain "constant" throughout all six episodes. Lucas made a wise decision, I feel, by allowing R2-D2 and C-3P0 to be gradually fed into the narrative, rather than creating an extensive parallel between Episodes I and IV, consequently undermining the opening sequence in "A New Hope," not in its abstract form, but when applied to the larger trajectory of the saga itself. The thematic and visual echoes are mostly effective, and create a cyclical series of events which ultimately reveal not that Luke is "his father's son," but that "the child is father of the man." (Wordsworth)

R2 HAD to be in every one and I feel that C3P0's backstory was a nice way to add depth to his character. They didn't add too much to TPM and AotC, even though R2 did save Padme. But, the fact remains that R2 is the reason why, in a non-fiction sense, we know about Star Wars. So he had to be in them. Plus, if nothing else, it helps us bridge the two trilogy's.

I agree that it was an appropriate decision to include the droids in the prequels, and while R2-D2's presence in the pictures has been negotiated about as reasonably as one could hope, nothing will match their perfect introduction on the Tantive IV at the beginning of "A New Hope." It's actually somewhat remarkable that Lucas allows the first passage of that film's story to unfold from the perspective of two robots (albeit robots with very human dynamics) - there is something daring and abstract about that venture, although it is, as I have previously indicated, much the same way that Kurosawa allowed the audience to enter into his story in "The Hidden Fortress," so the concept isn't entirely original. I think that it's kind of interesting that C-3P0 had a "backstory" in "The Phantom Menace," but I feel that it could have been handled in a marginally different fashion.

I think having Anakin build 3PO was too much, but what could Lucas do that wouldn't demystify him to a degree?

I will concede that the idea of having Anakin build C-3P0 did not exactly epitomize subtlety, and was quite heavy-handed, but I do not have a problem with the notion itself. That said, I think that it was a conceit which was not properly realized by Lucas; the tone suggests a light-hearted goofiness that is not altogether unwelcome, but in what was likely an attempt to create a diametrically oppositional mood to the foreboding, transitional feel of "Episode II," and the more lugubrious qualities of III, he miscalculated slightly and ended up overstating the matters concerning threepio in "Menace."

As for the issue of de-mystification, it is more or less a necessity of the story which exists in order to properly function within the parameters that Lucas has created, and feed in to the saga's narrative framework. To cultivate a feeling of dramatic progression within the six-film cycle, it is most useful to develop a disparate series of references for the respective trilogies; the OT is told in terms of a lost romanticism, whereas the PT is antithetical to those more appealing qualities, and is firmly embedded in an antiquated formalism. If you will allow me to extrapolate slightly, the entire notion of character development has been inverted somewhat by the fractured chronolog