Was it a good idea to include R2D2 and C3P0 in the prequel trilogy?

rather than creating an extensive parallel between Episodes I and IV, consequently undermining the opening sequence in "A New Hope,"

There are parallels though, but they are thematic and subtle: the roles of R2 and 3PO are portrayed by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in the opening scene of TPM. Several themes are taken directly from ANH: the burning door, the escape to the surface with valuable informtion, the female royalty confronting the villain.

Both scenes are even the exact same length. (as are the opening scenes of AOTC and ESB, which also have uncanny similarities. I don't think that's a coincidence)

 

There are parallels though, but they are thematic and subtle: the roles of R2 and 3PO are portrayed by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in the opening scene of TPM. Several themes are taken directly from ANH: the burning door, the escape to the surface with valuable informtion, the female royalty confronting the villain.

Both scenes are even the exact same length. (as are the opening scenes of AOTC and ESB, which also have uncanny similarities. I don't think that's a coincidence)

Indeed, you are correct, Plo_Koen, but the implication of my initial point was that Lucas began "The Phantom Menace" by having us observe the story from the perspective of the Jedi, whereas in "A New Hope," we were introduced to the droids. There are thematic and visual parallels throughout these films, a matter that I have previously addressed, but the idea here is that had Lucas started "Menace" with C-3P0 and R2-D2, this notion of echoing could become less about repetition, and instead merely repetitive. I am sure that there is a considerable amount of symbolic connotation within the respective scenes, but I do not currently have the time to explore such matters; later on, perhaps (but in a different, more appropriate thread).

 

Yeah... I wasn't in disagreement or anything, I just felt like expanding on your point.

 

I always got the impression that the droids were pretty up-to-date technology.

When they show up in ANH, they are 40 year old technology. It's like having a 486 computer today and still using it.

But I guess that ties in with the whole technology regressing plothole/complaint.

 

yeah that always seems weird now to, because in ANH it seems like they are the new top of the line droids better then all the others, but in the prequels we see far more advanced droids that make you wonder why C3P0 cant bend his knees, etc.

 

To cultivate a feeling of dramatic progression within the six-film cycle, it is most useful to develop a disparate series of references for the respective trilogies; the OT is told in terms of a lost romanticism, whereas the PT is antithetical to those more appealing qualities, and is firmly embedded in an antiquated formalism. If you will allow me to extrapolate slightly, the entire notion of character development has been inverted somewhat by the fractured chronology of the films' production; Lucas is placing beloved figures in "Star Wars" lore, such as C-3P0 and R2-D2, into a re-configured plane that adheres to a visual aesthetic which is mostly consistent with that of the OT.

Thanks Tyranus for explaining that. I never knew why I "felt" that way about those OT character roles in the PT, but you have explained it.

 

Can you translate that in English for me?

 

Yeah, he's saying that their appearances in the formal construct of the prequels seems a little odd because they're from the OT, which was romantic.

Seeing them in this way is something we're not accustomed to. They don't quite fit the format.





....maybe that's what he said. At least that's what I think he said!

 

thats how I took it.

Now whether that formal structure is to the betterment of the PT can still be debated.

 

YA R2 WAS THE ONE THAT MADE ME LOL IN rots.

 

I have nothing against R-2 and C3PO but their presence in the prequel was unnecessary and amounts to one more continuity problem in the two trilogies. Even if R2 and C3PO receive memory wipes at the conclusion of ROTS, we're still left wondering why Vader does not recall building C3P0 or travelling with R2. Obi-wan, who spends many epic moments with the two droids exclaims in the original trilogy that he's never travelled with droids. Maybe there's a blow-out sale on memory wipes in ROTS where Vader and Obi-wan join the droids for a communal brain rot!

 

The droids did not have to be in the Pt this is true but thier addition does I feel add to the Saga as a whole. First off the idea the Vadar is also C3PO's father is kindof funny if you think about it, because C3PO is a robot who has humanity (which develops more so in the OT), and Vadar was a man who turned into a robot that lost his humanity. Second R2D2's addition is really cool if you look at the OT (or just see ROTS after the OT), father and son both having the same driod (lets just compare R2 to a faithful dog), it sent chills down my spine when I realizes Anakin was using R2 in the the same way Luke used him later, not only a parralel but also kindof adds to R2's story, the whole OT he knows Luke, maybe he's with Luke because of his love for Anakin. ( maybe cheesy rambling, could be stretching, but nevertheless I think it's cool). The Continuity has been resolved by Sith, it was a quick get to the point scene, but it works, and like I said adds to the droid's story.

 

COUNTMOOKULIKI ...Obi-wan, who spends many epic moments with the two droids exclaims in the original trilogy that he's never travelled with droids...

What Obi-wan says is, "I don't remember ever owning a droid before."

 

I'm not really sure what I think about it. I remember I was surprised when I found out they would be TPM, because there's nothing about the backstory, at least how it is eluded to in the OT that nessesitates their inclusion, and in some spots it makes the continuity a tad questionable.

I could have done without 3PO, didn't feel like he was necessary. R2, though, was tied in nicely in the PT. Particularly in ROTS, I liked his interaction with Obi-wan, which was important because there's one scene in ANH that I never paid close attention to until after seeing Revenge.

In the scene when they were in the computer contol room, when 3PO says that they've found a computer outlet, Obi-wan said, "Plug in, he (refering to R2) should be able to interpret the entire Imperial network." That was an important tie in to Revenge, because if he never knew R2 he wouldn't have known he could do that.

As for the Obi-wan/R2 introduction scene, it was mentioned by someone earlier, he never said he didn't know R2 only that he never remembered owning any droids. That's a true statement because, in the Old Jedi Order, a Jedi would not have had possessions as such. However, when Obi first spots R2, he reassures him that Luke is okay and calls him my little friend. When Luke tells him that R2 is looking for Obi-wan Kenobi, he has a curious expression on his face as he looks at R2; but, not a look of surprise or confusion that R2 would be looking for him.

 

From a story point of view, R2 - yes, 3P0 - no. I was thinking about this the other day. What the hell does 3P0 do in the prequels?

In Episode 1 we learn Anakin made him ... fair enough, but we can see Anakin is good at building things from his Podracer. Wouldn't many people have been more comfortable with Anakin not building 3P0? The rest of his time here is spent cheering Anakin on with his friends and adding a little comic relief .. but Jar Jar was doing quite enough of that already.

In Episode 2, he just adds irritation by making minor plot holes. We learn that Owen and Beru have met him and then he's effectively stolen by Anakin with no word to the Lars. These things do grate somewhat. Then in the droid factory and arena he does comic relief. Fair enough, if George thinks he needs comic relief that's fine. It's in the other films. But again, I'm sure it wasn't worth writing him into the prequels just for a few jokes for the kids. The droid factory sequence I enjoy a lot, except for the 3P0 bits. Actually, above anything because they don't look all that great.

And by far the worst, what the hell does he do in Episode 3? I can think of one thing. Carry Padme aboard the ship on Mustafar and even then we don't see it happen. Why on earth couldn't he have been introduced to us for the first time as Captain Antilles droid at the end of the film? He could have done his little 'R2-D2, a pleasure to meet you' stuff here. Wouldn't it be far better rounded off like that?

Maybe I'm over-analysing but it is one of the few criticisms I have with the prequel story. Even in Empire and Jedi he was useful as a translator.

 

Obi-wan, who spends many epic moments with the two droids exclaims in the original trilogy that he's never travelled with droids. Maybe there's a blow-out sale on memory wipes in ROTS where Vader and Obi-wan join the droids for a communal brain rot!

Yeah, well it isn't as if Obi Wan has a history of being entirely honest with Luke. I guess from a "certain point of view" he never owned a droid.

Overall I found Threepio's presence in the PT unneccessary but I'm tickled by the idea that R2 spends the OT knowing all this heavy stuff he isn't sharing with anyone.

And there is this exchange from ROTS that has had me giggling for days. After Anakin has pledged himself to Darth Sidious, slaughtered all the Jedi at the temple including the younglings, and has generally become an evil dude, he heads home to check in with the Missus. As he and Padme conclude their little scene, C3P0 goes to commune with R2 and R2 beeps an urgent, worried monologue, and 3P0 answers consoling, "well, R2, he's got a lot on his mind."

 

I think that R2 should definitely have been in the prequels...but I think 3PO should not have arrived until R2 gets aboard the Tantive IV. It would have been fun to see R2 go through three movies without C-3PO and then be introduced to him just as the final movie (ROTS) comes to a close...

EDIT: Basically d_arblay said the same thing as I was getting at



-matt

 

3PO was built by Anakin so that "Thank the Maker" would be a funny in-joke throughout the OT when watching the movies in chronological order.

If you want to say the universe is too small, I'd say it'd be even smaller if 3PO was the only protocol droid in the PT -- the first protocol droid you see is threepio? How mad would fans be then?

Showing more than one protocol droid gives us the ability to overlook Vader overlooking Threepio, since there's a bunch of them out there, but it could also be argued that Vader stopped Boba Fett from killing Chewie while threepio was on his back because he recognized his old droid.