PT Was it smart of Lucas to insert unexplored elements in the PT?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Darth Xalfrea, Jan 2, 2013.

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  1. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    When are they supposed to be planning, exactly? That's the problem with your argument: There's no time for them to sit down and figure out a step by step plan. The invasion is already underway and there's no time to waste. If they're going to do anything, it has to be right now and they are going to have to improvise on the way before it's impossible for them to do anything at all-which it nearly was; if they'd been delayed any more than they had the Queen and the rest would have been sitting in prison camps.

    You're assuming that somehow they could have created time to come up with a plan. They had no such time available to them.
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  2. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Exactly. It's called being in a life and death situation and having to make decisions on the fly. Did they know for certain that they would be able to save the Queen or help the Naboo? Of course not, but to do nothing wasn't an option and to make their way through an entire ship on full alert to try and somehow get to the Viceroy would be suicidal. They took the only option left open for them and as it turned out they were able to save the Queen and get her off world (so they were right to get the hell out of dodge!) They're in almost the exact situation the OT characters face when they are forced to escape the Death Star. Did Obi-Wan know for certain that they would be able to escape the Death Star? Of course he did not but he had no other options.
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  3. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I'm not clear on how they're supposed to even know where Gunray is, TBH. They'd have had to go planetside to capture him anyway.
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  4. FryingpoorGreedo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2012
    star 1
    I think we are really overthinking this, I meant this seems to be dissolving into nitpicking.
  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
  6. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    This is backwards. On each point the relevant EU material came out after the element was introduced in a film. Thus, each new element was meant to be adequately understood when it was presented in the film. And guess what? It was. I wasn't "lost" on any of it, nor were many others. As usual we continue to live in the era of RLM and when it comes to the PT no possible "criticism", no matter how bankrupt or nonsensical, is off the table.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Jan 2, 2013
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  7. mes520 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 3
    Some yes, some no imo

    Trade Federation eh not a smart move
    Sifo-Dias yes, though I think there should been a little more on him, but not too much
  8. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    eh, got to admit I was lost on the Sifo Dyas thing, and was happy when Lucas said "the next film would complete the story" paraphrasing there,

    if it wasn't for these boards, i'd have had no clue Dooku killed him,

    in fact it's not unreasonable to think that Dooku was pretending to be Sifo Dyas
  9. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    But that's just the reason why I never saw a problem with the Sifo-Dyas thing. Because both scenarios lead to the same result. Whether Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas shortly after S-D had ordered the army or Dooku/Sidious were using an alias (Sifo-Dyas) to order the army (which I think was Lucas' idea when he was writing, hence the similarity between Sifo-Dyas and Sidious) doesn't change the elementary fact that the Sith are behind the creation of the Clone Army. And the viewer needs nothing more to understand the story.
    I mean when we look back at human history there are historical events where we don't know what exactly happened. But we know enough to understand it. It's the same with Sifo-Dyas.

    @Darth Xalfrea
    I realized I was a bit rude in my first post. I'm sorry about that. You seem to be more reasonable and open-minded than I thought.
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  10. Darth Xalfrea Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2013
    star 3
    Heh, when you've scoured upon various forums and have put up with the armpit of the Internet that is the Youtube comment section, you tend to learn many things. Like developing a sense of patience and nonchalance when challenged. But it's cool.

    For the Sifo-Dyas thing, I felt that if at the very least he was seen as an extra in the Jedi Temple or on the council, the confusion might have been lessened.
    Last edited by Darth Xalfrea, Jan 3, 2013
  11. Darthbane2007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2007
    star 4


    Shouldn't the question be Should Lucas have explored these elements more in the PT?
  12. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    . And the viewer needs nothing more to understand the story.

    ------------

    in your opinion.

    We aren't dealing with historical documentary, we''re dealing with a fictional story.
  13. King Terak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2012
    star 1
    I don't think it's about what should have been explored as much as it's using our noggin'. The only complaint I could find, (If you don't read EU), with ATOC when it came out was the ten years in between it and TMP. Much had happened in between those movies, such as the separatists, Dooku, A Jedi Master named Syfo-Dyas' creation of a Clone Army and death, Jedi losing connection with force. When ROTS came out, it more or less explained to the moviegoers that Sidious was behind everything, setting things up and letting them fall. Though for how those events happened, people would have to go to the EU. I still think ten years was bad time frame. Going from TPM to ATOC makes it feel like I skipped an Episode.
  14. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    It'd be so boring if EVERYTHING was set up and explained. And the internet boards would have nothing to discuss.
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  15. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    again, the "using your noggin" thing,

    I feel some think Star Wars is some kind of Forest Gump,

    the fact of the matter Syfo Dyas could have been anyone:

    from "Sydo dyas"= Sidious

    Dooku pretending to be him (which is what I thought for a few years)

    or as it turns out Syfo Dyas himself,

    Star Wars is for all ages and should make sense to the masses,

    Edit: not everything has to be explained

    just basic plot points
    Last edited by Sistros, Jan 3, 2013
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  16. King Terak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2012
    star 1
    thread closed
  17. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    well there is still plenty disscuss,

    I find the Sifo Dyas plotline to be inadequately explained

    (thread closed)
  18. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    @Sistros: "What" is inadequately explained to you?

    I'm not being confrontational, but what is it about what we don't know that is necessary and/or important to know in a story sense? Sure, I think we all would like confirmation that Sifo-Dyas did or did not order the clones, why he did if so, etc. but it doesn't change the story one way or the other as I see it.
  19. King Terak Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2012
    star 1
    I also would have liked the Sifo-Dyas Sidious connection, then we would have gotten more Darth Sidious scenes, that I would have liked, in that Episode.
  20. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    I suppose it's because when I was watching it with casual fans, I was confronted with "who was this Sifo Dyas person?"

    so to the best of my ability, I explained that I thought it was Dooku pretending to be him after he killed him,

    then I saw the AOTC commentry in ehich Lucas assured me that the next film would explain it fully.

    But hey I guess i'm stupid for actually believing it was all Dooku all along and for not using my "noggin"
  21. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Oh, I believed Dooku appropriated Sifo-Dyas identity myself. I still believe it's possible until/unless confirmed otherwise.

    And GL's assurances that the "next film" would explain really meant and mean squat to me; I can live with the mystery of uncertainty.
  22. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    But...that leaves a very odd question hanging. If it was Dooku pretending to be Sifo-Dyas then the Jedi merely have to show the Kaminoans a hologram of Sifo-Dyas, to which they will , naturally, say 'no, that was not the Jedi who ordered the army". Quickly show them a hologram of Dooku, to which they will - again naturally, - say 'yes, that was him'..... So, the question should then arise, why did the leader of the CIS, a Sith Lord no less, order an army for the Republic? And why would the Jedi, and the Republic, continue to have faith in that army knowing that?
  23. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Who says there was a face to face meeting? (That includes hologram to hologram meetings.)
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Jan 3, 2013
  24. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I've said it before: the Syfo-Dyas stuff could have been resolved just by adding a few lines to Sidous/Tyrannus and Obi-Wan/Yoda/Mace scenes. Lucas was in a rush to deliver the script and didn't think everything through.

    Makes me happy they're writing the entire ST before shooting Episode VII.
  25. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4


    Are you saying that what was established in the OT were the only elements that Lucas was supposed to explore in the PT? Because if you are . . . I cannot agree. In fact, this argument not only makes little sense to me, I find it rather confining as far as storytelling goes.

    I'm not saying that the PT is perfect. It's not. I think its biggest flaw was the handling of the Sifo-Dyas character. I found it rather vague. However, my recent viewing of two OT movies ("ANH" and "TESB") has confirmed my earlier views that the first trilogy wasn't really any better.
    Last edited by DRush76, Jan 3, 2013
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