CT Was Jedi, Lucas' way of redoing ANH?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by WhiskeyGold, Sep 20, 2011.

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  1. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    It seems that in away, Jedi was away for Lucas to do lots of things he wanted to do in ANH but couldnt. He could do a better Death Star battle and he was never really happy with that cantina. in away, Jabba;s palace is more of he wanted to do.
    Thoughts.
  2. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    There is no better Death Star battle than the first Death Star battle. It's a textbook example of how to raise the stakes and turn the screws in an action sequence. ROTJ's DS interior assault is claustrophobic and dynamic, but it's not a patch on the thrill of the original trench run.

    Ep. VI's majesty lies rather in the Emperor/Luke/Vader trinity, of which there is but the barest hint in Ep. IV. So no.

    But I see what you mean about expanding the Cantina concept to an entire Palace filled with alien rogues and gangsters. In this regard I would allow that ROTJ revisits some of the same conceptual material as 'ANH' did. So yes.

    :D

  3. Muzz Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2007
    I see where you're coming from FirstStarWars. Another major concept that Lucas introduced in Return of the Jedi was the idea of a primitive race defeating technologically advanced foes in a ground battle. This concept first surfaced in early drafts of what would become A New Hope.
  4. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    I don't think GL ever saw ROTJ as a way of 'redoing' SW - it was, if anything, a lazy way of coming up with a story to finish everything off. Rescue mission followed by blowing up an Imperial superweapon - worked the first time around, why not just do it again? Spice things up early on with another alien menagerie, & let's see how that Wookiee subplot from the early draft of SW might work too.
    Oh wait, Wookiees aren't primitive, they know how to fly spaceships. Need another name for the natives... what's 'Wookiee' sound like sort of backwards?
  5. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Any more "dissing" of ROTJ will result in severe sanctions.
    DarthBoba likes this.
  6. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Fine. It's still better than the PT combined & I'm glad they didn't go with the Double Death Star option.

    Yub Nub!
  7. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    I love Jesi so I'm not fussing it at all
  8. anakinhasamullet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2006
    star 1
    It's funny you should ask this FIRST STAR WARS. I never really thought about it until I bought From star wars to Jedi on VHS. Lucas pretty much admits that he wanted to out-do the cantina sequence with Jabba's palace. And Lucas pretty much admits in the ROTJ commentary that he stuck with the original Death Star ending from the first draft even though he already used it in ANH.

    SO all-in-all I would say YES, Lucas tried to out-do STAR WARS.
  9. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    With Empire Lucas wanted to out-do the space dogfights from the original movie (and make it better). Was he trying to out-do Star Wars? In a way, he always tries to out-do the previous movies; that doesn't mean that it's a rehash of the same movie.

    About the commentary, that's just Lucas talking about his supposed original huge draft that got cut in thirds.
  10. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    There have been some truly excellent points in this thread! Muzz, Darth_Nub and that anakin/mullet guy, you've all expressed very cogent arguments as to how ROTJ is a "re-do" of 'ANH'. I do think you have me sold on the idea. The answer to the thread question is clearly "yes". :cool:

    I'm trying to think of other sequel-remakes. Evil Dead II springs to mind, and The Fly II. Son of Kong, Son of Frankenstein. The idea is not a new one! Surely there are others....
  11. WhiskeyGold Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2001
    star 4
    I think maybe my word of "redoing" was the wrong word to use. I dont think he set out to retell the story or even reuse the same ideas. I just know Lucas was always unhappy with a lot about Star Wars and I believe he saw away to do what he wanted to do in Jedi.
  12. Muzz Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2007
    It seems as if Jedi was Lucas's opportunity to realize concepts he had been unable to sufficiently explore in the past due to budget constraints etc. In the 80s, as far as Lucas was concerned, Return of the Jedi was the final Star Wars movie (or at least the last one for a while), so it was quite natural for him to want to pack as many unused ideas as possible into the film, as he may never get another chance.

    I understand why people criticise the use of another Death Star, but honestly, there is enough variation (Throne Room scenes, Endor ground battle) to prevent it feeling like a rehash. It also helps bring the OT full-circle. Narrative symmetry is awesome.
  13. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    There is no better Death Star battle than the first Death Star battle. It's a textbook example of how to raise the stakes and turn the screws in an action sequence.


    Textbook example? Frankly, I never saw the big deal in any of the space battles featured in all six movies. Okay, I take that back. I really liked the space battle over Coruscant in ROTS.
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    To be fair when it comes to the Death Star II battle, the original plan was to have the Alliance raid Had Abbadon, the seat of the Galactic Empire, while the Executor was to be the space battle. Lucas felt that it wasn't enough of a threat, so he added in two Death Stars and then he just scaled it down to one. The battle on Had Abbadon was abandoned since he couldn't make it look like Courscant does in the PT. So more time was spent on Endor, while the Jedi vs Sith battle took place aboard the DS II.
  15. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    The third film of Romero's 'Dead' trilogy, 'Day Of The Dead' (1985), was basically a remake of 'Night Of The Living Dead' (1968). The trilogy actually parallels the SW trilogy in that sense - the second & third films are much more closely connected visually & story-wise, plus the third film is effectively a remake of the first.
  16. Boom_Pow Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2009
    If only the Death Star battle in Jedi were even half the Death Star battle in A New Hope. I love the DS battle in Jedi mostly because that's one of my favorite moments in ANH and growing up it sucked that we never got a space battle again until Jedi, and even then it took a back seat to Luke/Vader/Emperor and the Endor sequences. That said, it was always lacking a quality the sequence in ANH had and in fact, no Star Wars movie since has had.
  17. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    That was the habit of a lot of trilogies. The first story is a hit. The second story is quite different from the first, which tends to turn off some. In order to maintain the interest of the fans. many aspects of the first story is revisited in the third story.
  18. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Yeah, I feel the remake vibe as well, FirstStarWars. It's quite similar to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade--the difference being that Spielberg's trilogy capper boasted great performances, a more credible father/son reconciliation story, and happened to be deliriously funny.
  19. henderson Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2005
    star 2
    If you guys hate ROTJ so much then why are you guys even discussing it?

    Keep the topic to the films, not the fans, please.
  20. Darthman1992 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2011
    star 1
    'Kay guy, no one on this forum seems to hate JEDI, just offering a theory about why it is how it is and some speaking of constructive criticism (and why shouldn't that be allowed?). Plus, many guys who hate the PT turn bashing that into a pass time much more than all probably 0 people who do that to the OT here (In fact I really have yet to see any fan that dislikes the OT on this site)


    But on the topic itself, yeah I can see what's being said. I'll even say that the Leia being Luke's sister also felt sort of like a re-tread of the familial plot twist in EMPIRE. That being said though to be fair I think the Death Star was powerful enough where the Empire may want to try and perfect a weapon of its caliber. That's probably the explanation from a narrative standpoint, but from a behind the scenes standpoint maybe Lucas was lazy, maybe he thought it just made sense. I don't know. But on the outside a lot of the stuff in ROTJ does seem to go through previously treaded ground. (Though I still love the film, make no mistake about that)
  21. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Actually, "THE LAST CRUSADE" is my least favorite Indiana Jones movie.
  22. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Blasphemy. The Indy films from best to worst are: Crusade, Raiders, Temple, Skull.
  23. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Couldnt agree more.
  24. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Actually, I like the second Death Star battle a little better. The first one has always felt too much like a cliche of a WWII dogfight to me.

    However, aside from Vader's final actions, ROTJ almost seemed like a remake of ANH.
  25. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    A new hope was kinda emotionally empty

    Compared to jedi
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