Lit Was Nomi Sunrider ever Grand Master of the Order?

On the surface of it, I think the answer to this question is no. Taking a quick look at Wookieepedia's page on Grand Masters, there is no mention of Sunrider. However, I remember back in Tales of the Jedi: Redemption, there is a scene at the start where Nomi Sunrider has convened a great Jedi council to remember the 10 year anniversary of the Sith War.

In this scene Sunrider is behaving as if she is the Grand Master of the Order, and the other Jedi around her treat her as such. But the words, "Grand Master of the Order" do not appear in the text (I think - I don't have it in front of me to verify this) So, with a dearth of solid evidence, I'm going to build my case on circumstantial, and say, Yes, in 3986 BBY, Nomi Sunrider was the Grand Master of the Order.

Let's clarify our understanding on this important topic and discuss.

 

Was the term ever used prior to the prequel movies and their tie-in material? If not, maybe that would be why the term isn't used in the comics- because it's a Lucas invention.

 

I'm 99.9% sure it wasn't used until the Prequels came out. Before that, it seems it was always just Jedi Masters in control of small enclaves, such as Arca Jeth on Arkania, Master Thon on Ambria, Luke Skywalker on Yavin IV etc. But now, we have a title, so it may well be that Nomi was indeed the Grand Master at this time.

 

Well, first off,

This doesn't mean anything. But moving on, I'm positive the "Grand Master" term, and even the concept, didn't exist until after AOTC came out. Yoda is clearly a leader of the Jedi in TPM, but there's nothing to suggest he's the official top dog. And actually, around the TPM era, wasn't it stated that Mace Windu was the leader of the Jedi Council? I definitely remember that from somewhere, but it's been so long now it's hard to recall just where that came from? It's only in the original Clone Wars novel run I remember first seeing the Grand Master term pop up, and even then it wasn't really common until Denning revived it in Dark Nest for Luke's Order.

Anyway, going from both Redemption and other sources, it's definitely clear that Nomi is supposed to be the leader of the Jedi at that point. And actually some of the stuff for Redemption seems to presage the prequel conception of the Jedi - Nomi is mentioned as residing on Coruscant and being part of some 'council', both of which weren't aspects of Jedi leadership in prior TOTJ works.

 

Or just weren't mentioned.

 

Well, yeah, they weren't mentioned because Lucas hadn't come up with those concepts of how the Jedi were run yet.

 

My own understanding is this:
The Jedi went through some sort of reformation after the Sith War. Perhaps they felt that having the Jedi Masters in their own little corners of the galaxy teaching apprentices in their own ways had a part in allowing Exar Kun to lead so many apprentices to the Dark Side and lowered the defenses of the Order. Some reformations were forming the title of Grand Master and tightening the structure of the Jedi from lone Masters and rare Gatherings to permanent Councils on large Jedi settlements like on Coruscant and Dantooine. This was also the time when those who were against Jedi marriages started to get their voices heard.

 

Grand Master wasn't even used during the Prequels.


It was invented in Troy Denning's Dark Nest trilogy. It was supposed to be something new, never done before.

Then, in a Clone Wars book that came out shortly before Episode 3, an author called Yoda the "Grand Master" too.

And now apparently it has existed for thousands of years.

But it seems to be an informal title, pre-DNT, at least. In that there doesn't have to be a Grand Master, it's just a title given to an extremely accomplished Jedi Master on the Council, with many generations not even having one.

 

Dark Nest came out at least two or three years after the Clone Wars books that used the Grand Master title were published.

 

It did? I remember when Luke did it, everyone treated it as big news, as creating a new position.

 

It was a big deal for the NJO, anyways.

As to Nomi, I believe she was, at least from what I've heard.

 

I hope not. I'm so sick of the idea that there's a Grand Master all the time. There shouldn't be. Grand Master should be an extremely rare term of respect, not the formal, constant office of King of the Jedi.

Also, Nomi Sunrider is a terrible Jedi.

 

Well, I don't agree that Nomi is a TERRIBLE Jedi... but, yeah, the "office" of Grand Master is one of the worst things introduced to the franchise.

 

There are High Priests (and equivalent titles) in most religions here on Earth. What is wrong with having a High Priest Jedi?

 

Because the Jedi aren't a monarchy, to be ruled by one voice. Because they aren't a hierarchy in which one priest is declared to have God's ear and all others are subordinate. We've seen the Jedi organization in the movies: the Jedi are guided by a Council. Not a Grand Master; a Council. A body of the wisest, most respected Jedi, who gather together as equals to debate the proper course of action, receive the Force's wisdom as collected and checked by a body rather than one being. The fact that this system -- a deliberative, peaceful, collaborative process of harmony achieved by multiple elders reaching consensus as equals -- works is a testament to the wisdom of the Jedi and the guidance of the Force, and it has the advantage of checking and balancing any one voice. If you've just got one Chief Jedi, you lose those checks, and things become hierarchical and top-down. The beauty of the movie system is lost in favor of having one bossman, and it's much less in accord with the Zen sense of the Force established by the films.

She's certainly too terrible to deserve to be honored as a Grand Master.

 

Well said. Though I do wonder if/hope that the NJO eventually coming to their senses about this is one of the things that leads to the IK split.

 

I'd like the title of Grand Master to be honorary, as well. Something to say "This guy is frikkin Yoda/Luke Skywalker, he should know what he's talking about". No "Do what he says" but rather "Listen to what he says".

And remembering how Nomi messed up before and during the war, there would have to be some serious re-interprerating of history during the reformation before she could be given the title.
(Or the old Jedi were romantic and gave the title to a main character who was still alive after the war. I wouldn't be surprised)

 

In Planet of Twilight, Beldorion describes how "the great ones" (the examples he gives are Thon, Nomi, Yoda) could use the Force to generate light for their allies to see by. So, whatever the dubiousness of some of Nomi's early decisions- it's implied that she became a great Jedi.

 

I like the term Grand Master, and the fact that only the most powerful, skilled, and usually wise Jedi, can be given or assume that rank.

 

Forget Nomi, I'm still hugely upset that we've never seen Vima Sunrider as an adult Jedi, since from her very first mention in the Dark Empire endnotes she was established as having been one of the greatest Jedi of her time.

 

Retconning her into the Exile would have been the most elegant solution.

Alas, that ship has sailed.

 

Bah....I'm still no good at properly using the boards

 

You can use the edit button beneath your post to amend any mistakes you make.

 

usually the grandmaster is just a high ranking council member, until he or she decides to take charge when it is necessary to do so.