Was Palpatine in-love with Anakin's Power?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Old_Zen, Jan 4, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    i still find it sort of funny that people can get so worked up about the supposed purity of the GFFA characters. or the purity of george's vision. there is loads upon loads of loss of innocence going on ROTS alone so you'd think palps turning out to be gay is no big deal. but hey! murdering is fine and can be discussed, sexuality is a no-no.

    I don't think its an issue of morality. I think people are trying to avoid reading into things too much and seeing things that aren't there.

    We have no way of knowing for sure what the Emperor's sexuality is because the films don't show him in any romantic relationships. However, I'm certain that the Emperor doesn't feel love towards Anakin or anyone else because he's too evil.

    Is the Emperor sexually attracted to Anakin? The movie never gives any clear indication of his. While we might not be able to disprove the theory, we certainly can't prove it. There's no more evidence that the Emperor lusts after Anakin than Obi-Wan lusts after Padme (or any other characters having feelings for each other that aren't shown onscreen). For this reason, I wouldn't talk about the Emperor having feelings for Anakin in an objective discussion. Its purely speculation and doesn't have any definite facts to back it up.
  2. angelicusdiablos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    [face_peace] Exactly. Its all speculation. Thats why everyone is one is getting ever so annoyed with particular posts in this thread. You have to apreciate that this is fairly sensational topic. In turn you have to apreciate the nature of strong reactions.:mad:
    Old Zen didnt post this topic as something to be considered; instead he made the proposition of Palpatine being in love with Anakin in a way that could only warrant a yes or no anwser. :-B For the less informed the answer is NO.
  3. Magical_Maestro Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2005
    star 1
    PPOR. I'm a 30 year old man, and I've never even for a nanosecond done nor felt anything homosexual in nature. Nor have any of my really close male friends that I'm aware of. So I really find these "supposed" findings difficult to believe without some good hard evidence to back them up.

    Well, what's your take Sinister. Do you think Palpatine's gay?


    Right, and this speculation just happens to involve two of Star War's most popular characters potentially being gay on the internets most popular Star Wars fan site. And less we forget most Star Wars fans here and abroad are in fact HETEROSEXUAL. Add this to the fact that many heterosexuals find homosexuality abhorrent (I'm not one of them, but the evidence remains) and it's no wonder many people are miffed at this thread, as they find it very offensive. The bottom line is any way you slice it, this thread is bad (many find it offensive), it's irrelevant (everyone knows Palpatine is not gay), and it's subsequent continued discussion is leading to nowhere good. That being said, it should be locked.


  4. Dark_Disciple Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 3
    Seems this thread needed a better title but what's done is done...

    To me, its not really about whether I think Palps was/is gay or not. It's even more abstract then that. Clearly, its Palps that's the focus of the discussion, and any talk about Anakin on that front is besides the point. The thread title points to Palps, what he was feeling (whatever that was), and not Anakin. I think he was feeling desperate and on some level disgust with his situation, what he was putting himself through for what he perceived was for the greater good. But, back to Palps, there is something to be said for the power he must have felt when Anakin pledged himself finally to his cause. He's achieved a dominance over one of the more powerful force users in the galaxy, and without duelling! The circumstances along with choice words placed here and there, the years of mentoring finally pay off and he's giddy with the knowledge of that. Sids has made it at last. He's finally got the "muscle" he was after all this time, and a more compliant one at that (Dooku seems to be quite independent and aloof in comparison to Anakin). Sids does make a point of saying 'my young apprentice' and tells Grievous he will soon have someone far younger and more powerful. Clearly he wanted someone too that would be more submissive, and I think that is a kind of turn on for Sids when that moment is realised. That's a very visceral reaction he has there when Anakin kneels and pledges himself to Sids. It's a kind of lust, a strong passionate reaction, whatever, but it's not of a wholesome nature that's for sure. He comes across as almost vampiric, like he's had a taste of the blood and it's gone to his head and he's delirious with it. He's a Sith, he's just recruited a powerful force user over to the dark side, and he's now obediently in his corner, that's a power trip and not just on an intellectual level for Sids, to my mind anyway.
  5. WormieSaber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2000
    star 5
    Palpatine was twisted. He loved his manipulative creationso to speak, in this case, Anakin Skywalker...kinda like how a mad scientist loves his creations...perhpas weapons of mass destruction. Palpatine obviously didn't care much for human contact on a relationship level, other than feeding his own evil twisted desires.
  6. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    This thread and its question have much intellectual merit. How fannies respond to the question posed by Old_Zen is the real issue, isn't it?

    Many things are implied in the saga, some that "many consider to be unnatural." Is the love between Obi-Wan and Anakin diffent in some way than that between Anakin and Palpatine? It is an honest intellectual debate, not a sociologically moral one.

    I personally do not think the relationship between Palps and Ani was biologically intimate. Others may disagree. That is the essential nature of debate in its purest form. And the object of debate is not so much to prove the opposing side wrong, but to prove one's arguement more logical and coherent. So far I've not seen logic and coherence in the position of those advocating physical lust on Palpatine's part.

    Joseph Campbell decried blind adherence to social and religious norms. He espoused following one's inner truth. That truth may lead to success or failure. It may lead to failure and then success. It may validate religious norms or it may not. But the individual human element is the real key to the quest in any saga.

    If Palpatine 'loved' Anakin in any way -- sexual, intellectual, philosophical, spiritual, power-wise (force wise or other wise) or as a father loved a son -- what does that mean as far as our individual and collective takes on the struggle between the Jedi and the Sith? We know how Qui-Gon loved Obi-Wan, and how Obi-Wan loved Anakin, how Anakin loved Padme, Obi-Wan and Palpatine?

    We are not as disturbed by implying love between Jedi, as men a noble order loving each other is implied as non-sexual. So why should the love between a Sith master and his apprentice be any different? Cannot this also be non-sexual and purely Platonic?

    I believe what we are seeing surface in this edgy thread is an association of evil with homosexuality. If so, this is a most tragic consequence. Love is many things, and sex is only one of them. If a Sith can experience love, then perhaps Palpatine loved Anakin as a king loves his heir or a coach loves his star athlete. GL gives absolutely zero on-screen indication of anything more 'sinister' between Skywalker and Palpatine than a philosophical attachment. Implying anything other than that is due more to personal hang-ups or beliefs than dramatic subtext.

    But even if one's arguement on this matter proves valid, it does not prove that 'homosexuality = evil.' That is an individual moral issue and nothing more. So to those advocating Palpatine's love for Anakin, in the words of the people from the great state of Missouri -- 'show me!'
  7. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    Right, and this speculation just happens to involve two of Star War's most popular characters potentially being gay on the internets most popular Star Wars fan site. And less we forget most Star Wars fans here and abroad are in fact HETEROSEXUAL. Add this to the fact that many heterosexuals find homosexuality abhorrent (I'm not one of them, but the evidence remains) and it's no wonder many people are miffed at this thread, as they find it very offensive. The bottom line is any way you slice it, this thread is bad (many find it offensive), it's irrelevant (everyone knows Palpatine is not gay)

    There are always going to be some people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality, but I think that most people don't really care. The movie doesn't tell us if the Emperor is straight or gay (it doesn't really matter in the context of the story), but it does tell us that he doesn't love Anakin. We know this because of the Emperor's satanic nature. For this reason, the answer to the thread's question is a resounding "no".

    Regarding the possibility of lustful homoerotic feelings on the Emperor's part, I still stand by my previous assertation. If there's no concrete evidence of sexual feelings in the film, then I don't think there's any point in speculating. This will help maintain an objective analysis of the film, without formulating theories that have no basis in fact and were not intended to be part of Lucas' story.
  8. angelicusdiablos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    The mods fear of losing there own diplomacy ensures there silence and their sustaining of a thread that most would rather have been locked. As I said earlier, its a YES or NO proposition.

    :-B Would any mod be kind enough to provide us with there answer?

    In retrospect it is the only fair thing to do. In your attempts to shield the homosexual view from the onslaught of passionate honest critic you have oppressed the heterosexual voice. In protecting the minority you have failed the majority. Youve subjected us to biased politics simply because you know well with a topic such as this how careful you have to be not to thread on the toes of pro-homosexuality. Well mods, its time to lift the veil of ambiguity and enlighten us since you seem more than content with intervention.


    Obi Chron has just made a very dangerous fact clear, listen up:
    The term FANNIES is derogatory to the HETEROSEXUAL.
    It was used in a context against a certain HETEROSEXUAL view.
    If I used that same sentence and replaced FANNIES with QUEENS then Id be accused ignorant and banned.

    This is where the mods have failed us. There fear has inhibited them and rendered the heterosexual voice obsolete.




  9. Magical_Maestro Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2005
    star 1
    Very well put sir. I agree completely. Enough is enough is enough. The fear of being labled homophobic by the moderators has made them impotent and has indeed been the driving force behind making the lesser argument the greater, and the greater the lesser. The initial question asked regarding Palpatine having homosexual leanings towards Anakin has now become overshadowed by the overzealous paranoid political correctness of this forums management. And that's no small feat let me tell you considering the premise of this thread. From the get-go they've run from this it like the plague, only making vague TOS comments here and there as it might be, but I suspect that's about to change. I posed a question, and I know he will answer. If you build it, Sinister will come. And hopefully he'll lay down the gauntlet when he arrives, and put a stop to this nonsense. "At an end this thread is, and not soon enough it was."
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I can speak my own mind. Do I think Palpatine is gay? No. Not at all. He is in love with himself. He enjoys being able to turn Anakin to the Dark Side. He enjoys feeling through the Force the anger and hate one has. When he is not unleashing his anger, Palpatine's voice has a soft edge to it. He revels in the knowledge that he can turn a Jedi evil. Whereas the Jedi feel cold and death in the presence of the Dark Side, a Sith Lord feels unbridled fury and rage. Anakin has a lot of anger and hate, but is deeply connected to the Force. So when the anger builds, it's quite profound. And when that anger is unleashed, it's like supernova. This is what he loves feeling more than anything. The power of anger and hate. The power of the Dark Side.

    People are wont to find things that may or may not be there. It's common in everything. That doesn't make it wrong to have this topic. It just means that some people have made an observation. Others are uncomfortable or feel that it's a good idea to make jokes. The former they are entitled to, so long as they speak without baiting or flaming. The latter needs to not to that, because it can be considered trolling.
  11. Magical_Maestro Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2005
    star 1
    Well, if you want to get technical, this thread is bait by it's very design when taking into consideration the question that's being posed. Anyways kudos Sinister for answering my question, or more appropriately this threads in a straight-forward no-nonsense manner. So with that being said, I'm perma-outta this debate. I've done my best at making a case for why I feel this thread should be locked, but alas it was to no avail, and there's no use in making arguments that fall on deaf ears. Besides, over time this thread will most likely destroy itself anyhow, and if not, it'll fade into oblivion at some point. (crosses fingers)
  12. Old_Zen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2005
    star 1
    I personally did not intend all of this conflict and heat to arise from the premise of this thread. It was only an idea which came into my open-mind. I am not even homosexual myself, I have a wonderful girfriend, and I'm not nesseciarly a gay-lover myself, I think the sexual act is sickly and gross, and against my culture and religion but alas I still support them and accept them for I live in America, the land of freedom, no matter if I agree with them or not..they will flourish and they will be fruitful to do so. If we all had our own ways, the world would be Mordor. One Ideal to rule them all. This thread is not implying Palpatine is gay in the tradition sense. Merely that the way of the Sith, in terms of love is lust and OBESSION. The same obsession Anakin's love for Padme turns into when he joins the dark side, the same longing Palpatine, the TRUE Sith as sought out by Revan 4 thosand years before the battle of Yavin, finds in his apprentice, who posses the ultimate power of the universe, so yes he will smoke Anakin of all potential as an addict smokes his pipe. The dark side is all about: Lust, addiciton, obession and Passion and power. The dark side is the perversion of nature; the devastion of moralty. The dark side of the Force is deemed unatural by many, which is why many people I think are outraged by this topic. Accept it. The Dark Side is wild. And it always wins because it is everywhere. All things die. Even Stars burn out. TRUE Love is different.


    Love can ignite the stars.


  13. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I completely agree with sinister on this issue.

    And I think you need to listen to what Old_Zen is saying, this isn't about Palpatine being gay, it's about the lust, obsession and addiction to power that characterizes the Sith. But people see the title of the thread and immediately get defensive without looking at what it's really about.

    The whole "heterosexuals and SW fans are being persecuted by this very threads existence" bit needs to stop. If you don't like the topic, then it's as simple as IGNORING IT. You're not going to like every thread in this forum, but you are under no obligation to post in any of them. But if people continue to post about what an abomination this thread is, without contributing in a constructive manner to the topic, it will be seen as spamming and we'll take action as such.
  14. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Listen, I have absolutly no bias.
    But, what I don't understand is that when someone brings up
    racism in the saga (see above thread.... or below once I've posted:p)
    it is emphatically put down as ludicris(sp?), as it should be....
    but this thread may have some merit?

    I'm not talking is Palp's gay.... I'm saying that just like the lack of
    evidence of racisim, there is as much lack of evidence of Palpatines
    love for..... well, anything but power.
    So where's the merit here?

    That's all I have to say.
    I agree with RS77 and I personally should have stayed
    out of this thread pages ago.

  15. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I do agree with you. There is a as much a lack of evidence for racism as there is for Palpatine being gay, in a traditional sense. But I'll allow both discussions as long as there is interest in doing it in a serious and intellectual way.
  16. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    [face_peace] Right on.
  17. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    This thread is not implying Palpatine is gay in the tradition sense. Merely that the way of the Sith, in terms of love is lust and OBESSION. The same obsession Anakin's love for Padme turns into when he joins the dark side, the same longing Palpatine, the TRUE Sith as sought out by Revan 4 thosand years before the battle of Yavin, finds in his apprentice, who posses the ultimate power of the universe, so yes he will smoke Anakin of all potential as an addict smokes his pipe. The dark side is all about: Lust, addiciton, obession and Passion and power. The dark side is the perversion of nature; the devastion of moralty.

    I'm not sure I understand the question of the thread. If it isn't asking if the Emperor is gay in the traditional sense, then what's the real question? The Emperor obviously craves power, as you said. Nothing could be more obvious.

    The thread asked if the Emperor is "in love" with Anakin. Being "in love" with someone would involve both sexual and compassionate feelings. We know this isn't the case because the Emperor is too evil to feel any positive emotions. If the Emperor only had sexual desires for Anakin, then he wouldn't be "in love" with him. It would simply be lust, without any idealized feelings. Lust and love are not the same thing. Unhealthy obsessions can develop from initially positive feelings, but love always entails more than just intense desire.

    I think the reason people responded to this thread addressing the gay issue is because that's what the topic asks, if taken literally. The first post even compared the Emperor to a molester. The Emperor definitely isn't in love with Anakin, for the reasons I outlined above. Is the Emperor sexually attracted to Anakin? I suppose its possible for a satantic creature to have sexual feelings, since lust and desire on their own are certainly not good emotions. However, the movie gives us no concrete evidence of a homoerotic subtext. Anyone could be gay, but we have no way of knowing this unless a person expresses sexual desires towards someone of the same sex.

    If the thread is asking if the Emperor has a mad craving for power, then the answer is definitely yes. Obtaining "unlimited power" is the character's superobjective throught the entire saga. The Emperor wants power more than anything else.

    If the thread is only about the Emperor's desire for power, then its an entirely different subject than what the topic question is asking. Using someone to achieve your personal ambitions of galaxy domination has nothing to do with love, or even sexual desire. Only if love or lust for Anakin as a person are present, outside of the purpose of obtaining power, would there be a reason to speculate about sexual undertones.
  18. PowerUnlimitedPower Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2006
    star 1
    Perhaps the title of this thread should be called Brokeback Sith Lordo_O
  19. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    That's it. The next person to come in here and post only a gay joke is going to get banned.

    Please be mature.
  20. Old_Zen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2005
    star 1
    I guess I shuold have made the title a bit more clear..but thats why I put '' between inlove, because when I said IN love, I meant, the sort of LUSTFUL love many people seem to THINK is love, but it didint sell so well..so maybe the mods can make it more clear? like: Did Palpatine lust off Anakin? or something like that..heh.
  21. YYZ-2112 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2004
    star 4
    perhaps a better title for the thread would have been "Was Palpatine 'obsessed' with Anakin?"

    That seems to be more inline with what the topic is allegelly about. When I think of 'in love' i think of romance, dating, tender moments and ofcourse ...... well i won't say it, but it's the reason we inveted the stork story for little kids.

    The title is misleading.
  22. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I meant, the sort of LUSTFUL love many people seem to THINK is love, but it didint sell so well..so maybe the mods can make it more clear? like: Did Palpatine lust off Anakin? or something like that..heh.

    Lust for a person refers to intense sexual desire, without the idealized feelings of love. Its possible that the Emperor has sexual feelings, either for the same sex or the opposite sex. The movie doesn't tell us what the Emperor's sexual orientation is, and it certainly doesn't provide definite proof that Anakin is an object of sexual desire on the Emperor's part.

    One thing to take into consideration is the fact that the Emperor loves power more than anything else. He doesn't show any other passions in the films. For this reason, the Emperor might not even be concerned about sex. Physical pleasures might not seem important to someone who's so concerned with self-exultation.

    I would conclude that its possible for a Satantic creature like the Emperor to feel lust or desire. However, we have no way of knowing if this is the case, and we don't know who the Emperor would be interested in.
  23. darthvader88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2005
    star 2
    edit: What did I just say?
  24. so-fly Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2006
    DamonD edit: As RS said, no more gay 'jokes' here.
  25. irish_frank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2006
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.