Was Palpatine in-love with Anakin's Power?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Old_Zen, Jan 4, 2006.

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  1. OBIWAN-JR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 6
    >>>> (If you accept this point of view, the movie takes on another interesting way to look at it....A love triangle between Padme-Anakin-Palpatine with Palpatine winning in the end. Sidious smile at the end signifies he is happy she is dead because he won.)

    Ahhh, but of course Palpatine doesn't win.

    Padme trumps him by sacrificing herself to save her children, and inevitably her husband.

    Palpy stops loving Anakin.
    Padme does not.

    She never gives up on her husband, and passes that torch onwards....

    know there is....still....."

    -- Padme Skywalker, Revenge of the Sith
    />

    -JR :)/>/>
  2. DroidGeneral Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2005
    star 4
    LOL this thread title amuses me. "Anakin your boot is untied."


    "Anakin, you dropped something."
    "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD"

    LMAO
  3. Kia-Ruse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 1
    LOL!

    Yeah I did confuse 'love' and 'in-love', it was late okay?!! Lol!

    Is Palpatine IN LOVE with Anakin? NO! Of course not. Could he not just see Anakin as a means to an end, though considering that Palpatine killed HIS master, you'd think maybe the idea of Anakin turning on HIM wouldn't be so far from his mind? As we all know, Palpatine calculates everything.
  4. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]
  5. Darth-Mule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2002
    star 4
    [image=http://www.knightsweb.org/images/sidsoap.jpg]
  6. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    thank you!
    well, first of all he has an understanding of human nature. so, he picks up on insecurities and weaknesses and knows when to boost confidence.
    i've said it before and i'll sayit again: to me despite all his 'abstract' lust for power etc, he looks like he's clearly turned on by his new and beautiful apparentice.
    i know some people don't see it that way, but it's still there.
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Obi-wan has been training him for thirteen years on how to let go of his fears. Every Jedi must learn to let go of their fears or else they will be controlled by them. It's not dogma. It's a fact of life. If you spent your whole life being afraid of your own shadow, you'd be useless. If you spent your whole life being afraid to do something, you'd never be able to rise above your station in life.

    Yoda tells Anakin to train himself to do this. Anakin already knows how to do it. He just takes the quick and easy path. He abandons all common sense and reasoning, because it's too hard to do it the other way. Life is never easy. Qui-gon told him that being a Jedi is a hard life. Obi-wan has done his best to teach Anakin.

    Why do you think is spelt it as 'kill' her? Anakin lets his fears control him and that is what Yoda warned him about. This has nothing to do with supposed dogma. It is a fact of life. Anakin took the chicken **** way out, rather than being a man and dealing with his problems as an adult. Not as a petulant (sp) child who throws temper tantrums when things don't go his way.

    I get that. What I'm saying is people think that what Anakin wanted to do in the beginning was all sweet and noble. It wasn't. It was selfish. Anakin may have grown up in certain areas, but in many ways, he's still a child. He thinks that power will help him, but it won't. The Force can help him, but only by listening to it and not his emotions.

    But even though the Dark Side is something the Jedi face on a daily basis and the Sith deal in it, it exists in the non-Force users as well. Greed, fear, hate, anger, possessiveness, obsessiveness and jealously. They're not exclusive to the Dark Side of the Force. Watto, Jabba, the Fetts, everyone in the Separatist Council. They're all examples of greed. They're motivated by greed to do what they do. Watto would only deal in money that had real value and not Republic credits. He would gamble. Jabba only cared about getting Glitterism and being paid back for the shi
  8. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    *Sidious to Anakin*= "Goooood...I can feel your Anu.... whoops:eek: ......I mean anger."[face_whistling]

    [face_worried]
  9. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda tells Anakin to train himself to do this.

    Yes, that's sort of my whole point.
    Yoda tells him to train himself to do this.
    And why?
    Because no one else ever did.

    Here you have the chosen one, a fully trained (supposedly)
    Jedi knight and he still doesn't get a basic tenet of Jedi
    morality? No attachments... control your emotions?

    Train yourself?
    That, is why they failed.
  10. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    Ultimately yes, CRZA.

    No one else can control Anakin's behavior but himself.

    Ultimately everyone must learn internal self-control.

    Anakin failed himself.
  11. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Bah, Humbug.

    The emperor did not love Ani. He just wanted to use him as a tool.

    And that is exactly what he did.

    Even if Vader did not get badly beaten up by Oni-wan, the emperor still would not have given him all of his knowledge.



  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Too true and that is the entire arc of his character in the PT. He couldn't control himself. He had the tools necessary, but he never applied himself. The Council felt that he was ready after Praestylin and Obi-wan agreed. As Praestylin, Jabim, Kamino, Xagobah, Yavin IV and Saluemaci (sp) have proven, he wasn't ready. When Yoda realizes this, he warns Anakin to get his **** together.
  13. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    that idea of teaching is really medieval.

    he has techniques but cannot apply himself? how about applying the teaching to him?

    and what kind of funny idea is it of helping people when all you do is tell them to get their *** together?
  14. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    But frared, OB1 had been mentoring him daily for ~13 years, and Shmi for the 9-10 years before that.

    For the most part, a great majority of (average) people are able to achieve internal self-control, make rational and logical decisions and take responsibility for their own actions (without blaming others) by the time they are 23.

    This is not a "medieval" concept.

    Anakin would not slow down long enough to "think".

    "Always on the move." ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi, ROTS
  15. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    I've always put more of the resposability on the Jedi for Anakin's
    failure.... but you and CRZA have made me look at this differently!
    And it's so simple and so true. Anakin should have been able to
    learn through (what I still sorda see as) ellusive, riddle like
    teachings.
  16. Hairless_Ewok Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2005
    And notice how Sidious moans like he's having an orgasm when Anakin first bows before him and pledges his allegiance

    "oooooooooooooh yeessssssssss! mmmmmmmmmmm the force is STRONG with you!!!!"

    [face_sick]
  17. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    [face_laugh]
  18. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    well, i continue to see it differently.
    if they *told* him for 13 years and he didn't *learn* it, then obviously the way they teach is inappropriate (which is the case).
    i didn't mean that helping people to become responsible adults is medieval, lord, no, i mean just giving one-size-fits-all fortune cookie advice and at the same time expecting that it will do each and every situation justice is medieval.
    what palps does is making him think and giving him ideas. the jedi lecture. they say, you gotta do this and that in order to get this and that result. that's sort of deductive, what palps does is inductive. he lets him get there himself, which is much more effective. he is dropping hints and succeeds. obi-wan and yoda say, do this and that will happen and that's no good to someone who has a problem with authority. it just won't work.

    i think what you put forward is saying, the jedi never stood a chance against anakin's stubbornness and i say they didn't try because they were arrogant enough to think their methods will succeed no matter what. (that's not agood teaching attitude, might i add)

    there's more to this and i don't want to derail this thread much more...
  19. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    You don't want to derail THIS thread??
    Derailment would be an improvment.
    8-}
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    What Palpatine did was play up Anakin's ego and told him that his thoughts and feelings were right. He was doing the wrong thing by Anakin, because what he was telling him is wrong for a Jedi. Much less for most people. Anakin could've adapted to it, but having Palpatine bending his ear for so many years hurt him. Note that Luke has the Lars and his Masters bending his ear, which kept the Sith from getting him to turn. This is the crux of the matter. Anakin has been seduced by the Dark Side for thirteen years. He never had a chance, because he was receiving contradictory teachings. It's like in families who have parents that cannot agree on how to raise their kids. One will be lax and the other will be strict. And when the child gets in trouble, they'll follow the laxed parent's point of view over the strict one. Whereas both parents being in agreement with how the child should be raised, results in a more unified front and that helps the child.

    In application to Anakin, he's got Obi-wan teaching him how to be a Jedi. But then you have Palpatine teaching him how to be a Sith. Two different disciplines that will cause confusion for Anakin. Luke only had the teachings of the Jedi to keep him on the straight and narrow. Anakin was doing fine, save for brooding about it, when Palpatine brought up Darth Plagueis. Because he gave him what could be false hope, it made the task of joining Palpatine that much easier. You take Palpatine out of the equation and Anakin would have no choice but to let go of his fears.

    Yoda also told Anakin to be careful when sensing the future. That it is always in motion. This is true as we've seen throughout the Saga.
  21. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    With the addition of the PT to the saga, the 'hero' archetype is clearly Anakin. Joseph Campbell, GL's philosophical mentor, state's that the hero is not merely an individual, but an entire culture or, in the case of SW, what Campbell calls a 'mono-culture,' which is the common themes meaningful to all of us.

    But Anakin, in the time-honored mythological way, first falls hard before reclaiming his hero status once and for all and moving on to 'something or someplace better.' In Campbell's words, Anakin finally "finds his bliss when he saves his son and kills Palpatine. Until that point Anakin was a troubled and lost soul. He always did what others expected of him. He was a slave, freed by QGJ, or from another point of view, 'purchased' into the Jedi order through a simple wager. All the while, the only thing close to the 'bliss' Anakin wanted and needed came from Padme (after Shmi dies, that is). Anakin knows almost at the moment he again sets eyes upon her in AOTC that his destiny is eternally tied to her.

    Anakin wants a family. He wants love. He seeks love. He finds love with Padme. When he looses Padme, and their 'child' along with her, all he ever wanted instantly vanishes because the hero has failed. All that he has left is . . . . .

    what Palpatine offers him. Palpatine, unlike Anakin, has achieved his bliss. Through deception and manipulation he convinced Anakin that becoming a Sith would let him 'find his bliss.' As Darth Sidious, using his new apprentice Darth Vader, Palpatine exacted gleeful (or 'blissful') 'revenge' upon the Jedi order. As Emperor he then achieved "unlimited power" He now owned the shell of what was once known as Anakin Skywalker and controlled every life in the known galaxy. Anakin delivered to Darth Sidious his bliss, and so Sidious coveted Anakin in return, until a new young Skywalker steps onto the stage. This Skywalker too seeks his bliss, a bliss that comes full circle as he quests to enter the Jedi order that his very own father rejected. Man, GL did a great job tying all of this together in a highly entertaining manner.

    So, in light of the above, is Palpatine 'in-love' with Anakin? Not in the meaning most of us mean with those words. 'In-bliss' would be a better term -- a state of total mental and psychological blissfulness in Campbell's context, but in a completely evil kind of way.
  22. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    Obi-Chron, Your apprentice I gratefully become. [face_praying]
  23. Jedi-Queen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    ewwie topic, but here goes...

    "Palpatine certaintly sounds like he's getitng an orgasm when people do evil dark things..does he get a sexual charge out of evil?"

    He loves power and control and feels satisfaction from it, this is not the same as
    feeling orgasmic. Even rapists/child molesters do what they do for the feeling of
    control and power, it's not completely sexual. They are drawn to becoming powerful
    over others and forcing them into submission and into becoming the victim.
    Palps doesn't sound orgasmic to me, he just sounds like the proverbial cat who just
    ate the canary. He got what he wanted and he's ultra pleased.
  24. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    that makes two of us. :)
    he blisses out over the idea of a new and powerful possession.
  25. DarthDubya05 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2005
    star 4
    you never know. anybody other than anakin and Padme could be gay. Aayla could be Gay. Mace Windu and Yoda could be in a Relationship. Heck, even C-3PO and R2 could be in a relationship. you never know.
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