PT Was Palpatine responsible for Shmi Skywalker's death?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Lord Tyrannus, Oct 20, 2012.

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  1. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I had a theory, that Palaptine/Sidious, or one of his cohorts like Dooku, possibly under his orders, sent the sandpeople to kill Shmi skywalker, in order to drive anakin further to the darkside of the Force and eventually become darth Vader. Is is true?

    Or, would it make Anakin's fall to the darkside more orchestrated and planned out and that wouldn't be good for the story and his character? Are there any hints in the film about this?
  2. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    No hints in the movie. None in the EU either. Shmi was just unlucky, it would appear.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    This. Palpatine didn't cause Shmi's death, he just used it to his advantage. He had a pretty good history of playing unfortunate situations to his advantage, but having him manipulate galactic events before they happened would make him a bit too powerful and omniscient I think.
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  4. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
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    If Shmi skywalker never died in the sandpeople attack, anakin never would have turned to the darkside. True, his main motivation for joining the Sith was saving Padme from dying in childbirth to princess leia, but there were a lot of contributing factors that built up to it, his desire to save Padme was the thing that set it off. He panicked and joined the Emperor. If shmi never died, anakin wouldn't be that irrational, and he still would have the desire to protect padme, but in a more reasonable way, without joining the sith.

    Having a random occurence affect Anakin's fate, vs, the bad guys manipulating it, both seem to equally make sense. If Palpatine was responsible, then it would make him even more of an insidious, sneaky, manipulator.
  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, there's nothing anywhere to suggest that he is responsible for it.
  6. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Anakin was already impetuous in AoTC. If it hadn't been that, it would have been other events Palpatine made use of.
  7. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    The word on the street is there was dialogue cut from the ROTS script during the Anakin/Dooku fight. The original reason that Anakin kills him is because Palpatine tells Anakin that Dooku had the Tuskens kidnap Shmi.
  8. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    nope, Palps had nothing to do with Shmi's death,

    just the nature of the sandpeople..

    unless you also believe Palps told Tuskens to randomly attack a farm boys speeder for kicks
  9. LordMortis315 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    If Shmi didn't die, Palps would find a way to compensate for the missed opportunity to turn Anakin further. He'll always find a way, 'cause that's just how brilliant he is.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'd say if Shmi were alive and still in contact with Anakin, then Palpatine would not have been able to sway Anakin as he did. However, even if the Tuskens hadn't attacked her, there was still the issue of their separation, which Palpatine would have continued to exploit, although I think he would have used a different catalyst to turn Anakin.
  11. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I agree, with Shmi still alive Anakin wouldn`t be half as emotionally unstable as he is in ROTS and would not have fallen to the dark-side.
  12. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    It's interesting that the reason the Galactic Empire existed was because of Shmi skywalker dying.
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    No, you don't know that.

    Or because Anakin fell in love with Padmé? Or because Qui-Gon found Anakin? Or because the Force made Shmi pregnant?

    No. The Empire existed because Palpatine planned it. It could exist without Anakin. Maul or Dooku would fit his place.
  14. Yunners Force Ghost

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    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    I think the Empire would have existed with or without Anakin's involvement.
  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    I agree. Palpatine recruited Anakin as a way to give the Jedi a final "**** you," but the plot for Sith takeover was in place before Anakin was born and would have continued without Anakin.
  16. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    When I said earlier on that the Galactic empire wouldn't have existed if Shmi didn't die, because anakin never turns to the darkside if shmi never dies and he never disarms Mace windu and Palpatine doesn't live, and therefore does not create the empire, and the events of the original trilogy don't happen. Come to think of it, Luke and Leia's very existence caused the downfall of the Republic, and the rise of the Empire.
  17. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
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    Anakin saved Palpatine from mace windu, which if he never did that, palpatine would have died and the empire never would have existed, the republic wouldn't downfall. Mace windu's lightsaber was inches away from Palpatine, before anakin stopped him. The reason he did that was to keep the emperor alive to get the power of the darkside to save padme who was pregnant with luke skywalker and princess leia.

    Sure, Palpatine started wars to get elected and get more power and loyal followers who could serve him, but in the end, Anakin had the chance to stop all of that from happening, but he didn't.
  18. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    The only reason Mace Windu was there to kill Palpatine was because Palpatine set it up for Anakin to 'rescue' him. It was Palpatine who told Anakin he was a Stih because he knew he'd go to Windu.
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  19. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Does that contradict my original idea that anakin was responsible for the galactic empire's creation, because shmi's death led him closer to the darkside, and padme's pregnancy with luke and leia led to him saving Palpatine and stopping mace windu from stopping the empire's creation?
  20. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Anakin was the person who caused the downfall of the Republic and the Empire's creation.
  21. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    Yes. Yes it does. The Empire was Palatine's doing. To him, turning Anakin was just a bonus.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Turning anakin was not just a bonus. If anakin never saved Palpatine from windu, the empire would never have existed, the republic never would have downfalled. I am not blaming anakin, because if palpatine never started the clone wars it never would have happened, but, anakin, was, from a cause and effect perspective, the second part of the puzzlepiece to the republic's downfall and empire's creation, with that one decision he made to save the emperor from mace windu. How do they contradict? Also, if shmi never died, anakin still would fear losing his wife, but he would do so in a more rational way, not making rash decisions like attacking Mace Windu. A puzzle is made complete only by all the pieces put together.

    The concept of a domino effect is how shmi's death led not only to anakin's turn to the darkside, but the very existence of the Empire.
  23. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    We've just been through this.... scroll up and read my post.o_O
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  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Palpatine had already proven himself powerful enough--manipulating the entire Senate into making him Chancellor, then extending his term, as well as starting the first war the Republic had seen in a millenia and orchestrating both sides of it--that there is no possibility that he could be dependent on Anakin to finish the job. Palpatine did not have the personality that would allow him to begin such a tremendous job as galactic takeover if he thought he could not finish it alone.

    There are entire threads on the issue of whether Palpatine threw the Mace Windu fight if you care to use this board's search function. I should probably let you know that if you're trying to convince people that your POV is the "right" one, repeating your points over and over, doesn't really accomplish that.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Oct 21, 2012
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  25. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Would palpatine have survived if anakin didn't block Mace windu's lightsaber, with force lightning? That's interesting speculation.
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