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PT Was Palpatine responsible for Shmi Skywalker's death?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Lord Tyrannus, Oct 20, 2012.

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  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    What? Anakin didn't block anything with Force lightning, he never used it.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
  3. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    In the deleted script, count dooku was responsible for shmi skywalker's death. Is that canon or not, now that the films are released and that was edited out?
     
  4. Yunners

    Yunners Jedi Master star 2

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    Mar 30, 2006
    I already said that. Are you not paying attention? o_O

    And no it's not.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Since it got deleted and is not included in either the official script or the DVD deleted scenes, I'd assume Lucas changed it for a reason and therefore it is not canon. There was also some dialogue changed in which Padme said that Anakin had been gone for five months. That actually made it into the script that can be found on the IMDB site, however, it's been rendered non-canon due to the fact that Lucas decided that he wanted Anakin's fall to happen over a period of nine days or so, not a few months--therefore, Padme had to be more than five months pregnant.
     
  6. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I disagree. I don't think the Empire would have existed without Anakin. If he had been there to stand against the Sith, I think he would have defeated Sidious after Order 66.
     
  7. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    I don't understand what you're trying to say.
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I don't think Anakin was that powerful. Besides, if the creation of the Empire was dependent upon Anakin, how was the majority of its creation--giving Palpatine absolute governmental power with a full majority of Senate support--done without Anakin?

    How was Palpatine, in that climactic battle, able to kill three Jedi Masters within a few seconds, when Anakin wasn't there? With Palpatine's skill in both the political and physical arena, he didn't need Anakin for anything.
     
  9. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    He needed Anakin. If anakin blocked mace windu's lightsaber, palpatine wouldn't have lived on to become emperor. He needed anakin to save him at that moment, so he would have enough time to zap windu with force lightning to defend himself.

    Here's a metaphor. A puzzle. Suppose, a puzzle, for instance, has 90 pieces all together. You got 89 pieces so far, without any help too. But your game is missing one piece, for some reason. The puzzle isn't complete.

    Same thing with Palpatine and creating the Galactic empire. He manipulates the senate to get more votes and power, starts the clone wars and gets the Separatists involved in a crisis so he could get more power, the support of the Senate so he gets absolute power, gets some loyal clone troopers and followers, and, as others said, be a manipulator, he gets 89 pieces of the puzzle. The Galactic empire existed for about over 20 something years. However, after getting support and absolute power, one thing remained- ruling his empire for 20-30 years. He needed to be saved from mace windu. If mace windu defeated him in the duel, and anakin never helped him out, he would have died right there and the empire wouldn't have existed for the two decades and more that it did in the original trilogy. Anakin was the one puzzle piece he needed, he needed him to be saved from mace windu, or else he would never live to create rule the empire. It wouldn't have existed at all. After being saved from Windu, he became emperor. The first part of the puzzle was him getting absolute power, through starting the clone wars and getting loyalty and elected in the senate because of the conflict. The 2nd part of the puzzle was living to become emperor, and having a 20 year long empire. Anakin was the 2nd puzzle piece.
     
  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Your metaphor doesn't work the way you want it to work for one reason: no 90-piece puzzle dies without that 90th piece. It doesn't cease to be a puzzle if that 90th piece isn't there, in fact, when we're talking about a 90-piece puzzle, the image in question is completely recognizable even minus that 90th piece. I doubt anyone would look at such a puzzle with an image of (for example) a sailboat and think "What the hell is that supposed to be?" I'd say the general impression of the puzzle would be, "Hey, someone put together a puzzle of a sailboat, but there seems to be a piece missing in the corner/in the middle/on the edge."

    It's still a damn puzzle of a sailboat, and Palpatine's Empire would still be an Empire.

    And please, please, refer to the old thread, the one to which I gave you the link, regarding Mace Windu and Palpatine. I won't speak for anyone else but I don't change my mind about an issue simply because a poster repeats the same points over and over again, and I'm not sure why you would expect me to do so. If you want me to believe that Palpatine's Empire was entirely dependent upon Anakin and/or that Palpatine didn't throw that fight, you might want to try a different angle.
     
    Yunners likes this.
  11. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Anakin was nessecary for the 23 yr long existence of the Galactic empire, because, he saved Palpatine from mace windu. If he hadn't done that, palpatine wouldn't have lived on to become emperor and rule the galaxy in terror for 2 decades.
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    In addition to this, I'll give you a few more threads in which you can read every possible argument that can be made on this subject; if I'm wrong and you have an argument that hasn't been listed here, please let me know. You'll find people who both agree and disagree with you in these threads:

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...-his-saber-on-purpose.31752454/#post-31755347

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/mace-windu-and-palpatine.31697145/#post-31697360

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/maces-duel-with-darth-sidious.30449520/page-5#post-30676788
     
  13. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    I made a new thread about that. Part of it explains Anakin's role in being the chosen one and him working for the empire.
     
  14. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    The only reason Mace was there in the first place was because Palpatine confessed to Anakin. The clone plan didn't depend on Anakin, as it was concocted before the Sith knew of his existence. If Anakin had not existed Order 66 would have happened without him.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  15. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    But if Anakin was around he would have been one of a handful of Jedi who could stand against Palpatine.
     
  16. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Palps tells Anakin
    Anakin tells Mace
    Mace attempts to defeat the Emperor, the sith, and galactic empire once and for all
    Anakin stops him, and because of him, the empire existed and all the bad things they did happened

    The only reason Mace was there in the first place was because Palpatine confessed to Anakin. The clone plan didn't depend on Anakin, as it was concocted before the Sith knew of his existence. If Anakin had not existed Order 66 would have happened without him.​




    Your quote is correct and explained a lot to me and it makes more sense now, but how do you explain what I wrote above, and below, too?
    Anakin was a good guy who had a friendship with Palps, who Palps told he was a sith lord, anakin told windu, windu went to destroy the Sith empire, anakin stopped him and allowed sith empire to be created at a last-minute decision to turn to evil to save Padme.
     
  17. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 8, 2002
    I'm getting tired of these rhetorical questions that are obviously answered in the films...

    enough already...
     
  18. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Ok.:)
     
  19. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Scenes that aren't in the films aren't canon.
     
  20. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    I agree. If something is deleted out, the author decided to change the story.
     
  21. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    It's not a matter of you agreeing or not. :p
     
  22. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    What do u mean?
     
  23. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Canon isn't defined by fans.
     
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  24. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    deleted scenes are not part of the story anymore
     
  25. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Correct-a-mundo.
     
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