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PT Was Qui-Gon given Obi-Wan's Role in TPM?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by enigmaticjedi, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    That's not from TPM. That's from ROTJ.

    I'm talking about TPM.

    Sounds extremely humble to me. :confused:

     
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  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Right, why does Obi-wan say that to Luke? Answer, because that is what he is thinking in TPM.

    So, according to you, Obi-wan never thinks that he could do as well as Yoda until he's an old man and dead? Right. He couldn't possibly think that way when he was in his twenties. Obi-wan is telling Luke about what happened when he first met Anakin and what happened when he decided to train him. He is revealing his thought process at the time. That is what is in TPM. He doesn't have to say, "I'll show you how to train Jedi, Yoda." It has to be going through his head.

    No, being humble would be Obi-wan telling Anakin that he's proud of how far he had come. Not to go on about how he did a good job training him and how he learned everything from him.

    Humble: having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance.
    "he was humble about his stature as one of rock history's most influential guitarist"

    Bragging: excessively proud and boastful talk about one's achievements or possessions.
    "she interrupted their endless bragging"


    Right. They didn't say that. They thought that nothing bad would come from it. Say and thinking are different things.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  3. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    There's no indication that the Jedi thought nothing bad could come of training Anakin

    They should, however, have anticipated that something bad probably would come of short changing Anakin, bypassing his initial training and putting him with a rookie knight instead of an experienced master. It's what Malcolm Tucker would sympathetically call an "omnishambles".
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  4. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    The initial training is done by Obi-wan.
     
  5. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    He was thinking what? How is this relevant to the discussion?
    Huh? When did I say this? You literally just made this up. You're literally just making up pretend versions of me to argue against. [face_rofl]

    That's literally what he said. Telling someone else that their better than you is anything BUT arrogant.

    lmaaaoooo and only YOU know what characters "think" right?
     
  6. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Obi-wan was thinking that he could do as well as Yoda when it comes to training Anakin.

    No, I have not. Your argument is that something that is said in a later film, which describes actions in an earlier film, have no bearing. Is that what you said. If not, then express what it is you meant.

    Being arrogant is about talking about your role in the training. Being humble is just talking about Anakin progress.

    More than you do.
     
  7. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Yes everyone here has seen ROTJ. Again, how is this relevant to the discussion?

    Sounds like mental gymnastics. How is it relevant to the convo? If it's not, dead it.

    No, it's not.
    Arrogant: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner

    You learned something today![face_dancing]

    [​IMG]

    lol seriously though, why do you think you know more than anyone else about what the characters are thinking? What makes your guess more valid than anyone else?
     
  8. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Without a shadow of a doubt
    Judging Obi-Wan's dialogue (Force Ghost scene in Dagobah) in ROTJ, a 40-something Obi-Wan found ("When I found him...") 18-20 yo Anakin on Tatooine and trained him (following him on some silly Crusade, like his BLOOD brother Owen said), thinking he would do as fine as Yoda...

    We all know SW's Canon Story moves and changes with the years and new movies (I only consider the movies as canon, excluding the Old Republic canon, which still works) and some retcons work and other doesn't...
    I think the Qui-Gon's character was interesting and worked for TPM and kid Anakin...by AOTC, the story moved to what we envisioned (mostly) by Obi-Wan's dialogue in ROTJ: a (young) adult Obi-Wan training a 18-20 yo Anakin...

    I am your father was a retcon to begin with...Leia is your sister was a retcon to begin with...Qui-Gon found Anakin was a retcon as well. In SW, all retcons can work "From a certain point of view" (in this case, Obi-Wan was on Tatooine when Ani was found and quickly became his master because of Qui-Gon's sudden death) . But please, accept Qui-Gon was a (very interesting) retcon...
     
  9. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    The line is "When I first knew him" not "When I found him".
     
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  10. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I stand corrected!
    But I still see Qui-Gon as a (successful) retcon
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  11. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 10, 2011
    As do I.
     
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  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    It is the motivation that he has for training Anakin. It is a promise made and one born of arrogance in thinking that he could do the job and not humbly requesting that another Jedi handle it.

    It isn't mental gymnastics. It establishes motivation and characterization. If you can't understand that, that's on you.

    Key word here, often. Not always. One doesn't have to be overbearing to be to arrogant.

    Because I pay attention to the story and what is being said, both on screen and by Lucas himself.
     
  13. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    No, he just did it because Qui-Go asked him to.

    So now you're rewriting the dictionary to serve your narrative? [face_rofl]

    This just in: so do a million other SW fans.
     
  14. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    Yes is the answer to the OP.

    Likewise, Yoda had to be invented to take the role Obi Wan should have had following Star Wars. But it was decided it would make it more dramatic if Obi Wan died. It was decided that TPM would benefit from this kind of development too. But they couldn't kill Obi Wan twice and so Qui Gon became the sacrificial father figure and Obi Wan's active role in TPM was reduced to killing Darth Maul at the end.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  15. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    It makes sense Obi Wan would have a master of his own and the jedi system developed by the prequels is sensible IU and OU

    As for the scene in ROTJ-Obi Wan probably omitted it because it wasn't really relevant to the story he was telling Luke.
     
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