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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Was R2D2 explained?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by DML3, Dec 19, 2015.

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  1. The Grace of the Force

    The Grace of the Force Jedi Padawan

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    Dec 18, 2015

    The Force is very strong with Rey- perhaps she has a deeper connection to Luke that caused R2D2 to wake up. I don't know what I think of her background yet, but it's a theory
     
  2. WannaBuySomeDeathSticks

    WannaBuySomeDeathSticks Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 21, 2014
    If R2 would have woken up earlier when BB-8 first found him, the Rey/Luke story could have been better.

    Biggest "plot hole" in TFA, imo. 0 reason for R2 to be asleep the entire film when he has 95% of the map inside of him. He could have shown the rebellion leaders that portion of the map and tracked Luke down following leads from other planets and systems Luke traveled to.
     
  3. EviL_eLF

    EviL_eLF Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 16, 2003
    The point is... he didn't want the Resistance leaders to find him either. He wanted REY to find him. That's why the map portion was on Jakku, that's why Artoo woke up when Rey was present, not when the map arrived much earlier in the film.
     
  4. WannaBuySomeDeathSticks

    WannaBuySomeDeathSticks Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 21, 2014
    The map portion wasnt meant to be on Jakku?
    It was kept by MVS's character and given to Poe to be taken away from Jakku and given to the Resistance. The only reason it stayed on Jakku and was found by Rey was because that village was attacked and Poe's ship was too damaged to take off.

    IMO there's no way Luke could have predicted all of that. It was just "fate" that Rey found BB-8 after the village attack.
     
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  5. Raz Zaphon

    Raz Zaphon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2000
    It's very clear in the film that R2 woke up as a result of BB-8 returning with the map fragment and asking if the rest was in R2's memory banks.
     
  6. Tan-Wessel

    Tan-Wessel Force Ghost star 4

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    May 31, 2001
    I would like the whole map in general explained.

    As far as I can tell, all Luke did was split the map into two pieces, one ginormous one in R2 and the missing piece which is essentially a key in a USB drive. Then he gave the USB drive to an old buddy and told Leia that he has it. So I really don't get the whole, they've been looking for Luke for years. I get that you need Rey to unlock R2, but from what I can tell Leia knew all the missing pieces, so to speak, needed to find him this whole time. And while we don't have absolute verification that Lor San Tekka is in any way connected to Rey, he likely is or that's a huge coincidence that two of the "ingredients" are on the same planet.

    Basically, Leia could have, at any time, found Luke if she really wanted to.
     
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  7. Scruffy nerf

    Scruffy nerf Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 11, 2015
    Well, we're talking about Luke here... It goes along the same logic as his save Han from Jabba's palace plan. Luke usually can see the movie before others.
     
  8. NoeHat

    NoeHat Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 18, 2015
    3PO tells BB-8 that it's unlikely R2 has the rest of the map stored in memory. And that it doesn't matter anyway since R2 won't wake up.
     
  9. WannaBuySomeDeathSticks

    WannaBuySomeDeathSticks Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 21, 2014
    If that was the case, why didnt R2 wake up earlier in the film when he was first uncovered and BB kept bumping into him?
     
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  10. Raz Zaphon

    Raz Zaphon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2000

    The idea that fans are having that Luke had anything to do with the map is an idea that counteracts what the film explicitly states. The map is described as a "clue" to the location of Luke Skywalker. When Han talks about it he makes it very clear that Luke doesn't want to be found. Leia describes herself as 'foolish' for trying to find him. Basically everything points to Luke not wanting to be found.

    How the map came into existence could be a movie in its own right. My head-canon is that the larger part of the map came from the navigation system of Luke's X-Wing, leaving R2 privy to it and liable for capture by Imperial agents. The final piece of the map came about when a Bounty Hunter, hired by the Empire when it was in its last throes, tracked Luke Skywalker's last movements at the time. Perhaps the Empire wouldn't pay up, perhaps it couldn't due to completely falling apart, perhaps the bounty hunter had a crisis of conscience or perhaps someone who didn't know about the map headed them off. Whatever happened, the last piece was found by MVDs character at the behest of Leia in the time leading up to TFA by picking up on the cold trail.
     
  11. Raz Zaphon

    Raz Zaphon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2000
    Yep and we all know how R2 loves to argue with 3po and prove him wrong.



    Low power mode. Spent the next half hour searching his memory banks in that mode.
     
  12. WannaBuySomeDeathSticks

    WannaBuySomeDeathSticks Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 21, 2014

    Low power mode. Spent the next half hour searching his memory banks in that mode.[/quote]

    You'd think as soon as R2 heard or sensed that the missing piece of the map was near him, he'd wake up instantly with the map ready to be presented... no?

    I just think this moment in the movie was JJ's copout moment like Lucas's "have the protocol droid's mind wiped".
     
  13. WannaBuySomeDeathSticks

    WannaBuySomeDeathSticks Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 21, 2014
    You'd think as soon as R2 heard or sensed that the missing piece of the map was near him, he'd wake up instantly with the map ready to be presented... no?

    I just think this moment in the movie was JJ's copout moment like Lucas's "have the protocol droid's mind wiped".
     
  14. Darth_Zidious

    Darth_Zidious Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2001
    It's not a plot hole. R2 didn't know he had the map until later in the film.

    I don't think the map leads to Luke. I think the map leads to the first Jedi temple, where Luke is rumored to be. I don't think Luke wanted to be found, IMHO.
     
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  15. WannaBuySomeDeathSticks

    WannaBuySomeDeathSticks Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 21, 2014
    I thought it was made evident by Poe very early in the film that the piece of the map completed the entire map that lead to Luke Skywalker.
     
  16. arjank

    arjank Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 17, 2015
    Eaxactly
    It's all setup by Luke
     
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  17. Raz Zaphon

    Raz Zaphon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2000

    I'm willing to bet actual money that it wasn't set up by Luke.
     
  18. Tan-Wessel

    Tan-Wessel Force Ghost star 4

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    May 31, 2001

    I hear you, but that contradiction comes from the writers. If Luke did not want to ever be found, why even have R2 shut down at all and only be awoken by Rey? If he did not want to be found by anyone at all, even Rey, he probably should have taken his green lightsaber and destroyed R2, not just told his little buddy to go into Sleep Mode.

    Let's figure this out, though. Okay, so I'm cool with Luke wanting to never ever ever be found. We just need to come up with the rationale for leaving R2 intact and implementing an unlock for Rey. We also need to figure out everything about the map. We're presuming that there really isn't a map that exists whose sole purpose is to point out Luke's location and that years of searching for Luke has somehow led to Lor obtaining a piece of a map that will one day fit exactly like a puzzle piece into a hole in a map that isn't even created until R2 wakes up and on the spot is told to look into the Imperial archive files that he has and come up with something. So basically the Imperial Archives have no record of this location. Okay, makes sense and supports Luke's choice in hiding spots. And I believe we are to understand that where he is is the first Jedi Temple.

    So now we have to figure out how Luke found out the existence and location of the first Jedi Temple that has been erased or never recorded into the archives of both the Empire and any iteration of the Republic. That's easy enough, Yoda and/or Obi-Wan got inspired by Dooku pretending to be Syfo Dyas erasing Kamino. That works, though I don't know why neither thought to try and share it with surviving Jedi or even hide there themselves. Maybe they went there for short trips before ANH. Maybe they never knew of its existence and Force Voice Qui-Gon told them about it in their training. That sounds better and makes it an even easier secret to share between the Force Ghosts and Luke.

    So back to the map. R2 created and came up with a map based on the data of trips he took with Luke and corresponding existent information from star maps and archival files that both the Resistance and Empire had...which comes up with the giant map with the puzzle piece hole.

    We can presume that the puzzle piece hole isn't enough to go on and just send search parties to if what's in the hole is really a bunch of systems, so we'd still need the missing map piece. Besides that, the map with the hole doesn't get seen or created until R2 wakes up so no one even has that to go on.

    Now how did that missing piece get made? Who made it? Why would it get made? And why does Lor San have it? I just recalled/remembered that Lor San was a space explorer other than being the leader of the Church of Force. Okay, that helps and works A LOT. Here's a guy who's old and has been exploring the galaxy for awhile. A guy like that would naturally want to go to unchartered/unmapped areas. He's an old family friend of the Solos, so that explains Leia going to him and figuring out from his own notes and files where his explorations led and correlate to established star map data. It boils down to trial and error of just going from place to place, sending search parties or whoever and this can believably happen for years. I can buy them not searching all the places at once because the Resistance is dirt poor, so one by one it is.

    For some reason Lor San feels like the USB drive that he's going to give Poe is really going to be helpful and for some reason the First Order thinks so too. Maybe it's the last place left, but I don't get why he wouldn't just give all the files at once to Leia way back when. Maybe he did and the copy Leia had got destroyed somehow; maybe it was sabotaged when the FO attempted to steal it once, I don't know. Doesn't matter. So okay, this USB drive is the only copy in the galaxy left of say all Lor San Tekk's travels...no idea why he can't copy it. I'll pretend that it requires some device that isn't on Jakku.

    So all of this nonsense above is the only way I can make sense of this convoluted map. The USB drive has Lor San Tekk's travels. Nobody realizes that it still wouldn't help them at all. They all luck out that for whatever reason Luke programmed R2 to wake up to Rey's presence, resulting in R2 coming up with a super map combining Imperial, Republic, Resistance and whatever other star map data he has and customizing the map specific to Luke's travels wherein R2 accompanied him. Based on that you get the puzzle piece hole. And combine that with the new data from the USB drive fills in the hole.

    Whew.

    I guess that we can still try to figure out what possible motivation there could be for R2, Sleep Mode, and Rey.
     
  19. Raz Zaphon

    Raz Zaphon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 9, 2000

    R2 wasn't awoken by Rey.

    I suppose a bunch of SA people went in with the preconception of Rey being Luke's daughter and assumed that's how R2 woke up. I didn't have that preconception and the reason for R2 waking up was clear on the second viewing:

    1. BB-8 approaches R2 and asks if he has the rest of the map.
    2. C-3PO reminds BB-8 that R2 has been in low power mode since Luke left and that it's very unlikely that R2 has the rest stored in his memory banks.
    3. The ever argumentative R2 proceeds to do a low-power search of his memory banks and finds the data within hours.
    Perfectly explained without the notion of Rey being involved.
    I'd love to address everything else you took the time to write but the fundamentals need to be agreed on.
     
  20. Gamma626

    Gamma626 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 6, 2014
    R2 was shut down by Luke to wait until Rey shows up at the base. The only other time we see R2 is Luke laying his hand on him. Then he's mysteriously shut down the entire time, until the moment Rey arrives at the base. I'm sure we'll get the full scene in 8 or 9.
     
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  21. EviL_eLF

    EviL_eLF Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 16, 2003
    That doesn't explain then why R2 was in low power mode ever since Luke disappeared, and then suddenly on his own comes out of it with the map.

    He was PUT INTO low power mode by Luke INTENTIONALLY, and had it setup so that nobody could wake Artoo for the information unless certain conditions were met... aka his daughter being present.

    Artoo didn't do a search after Beebee told Threepio that he couldn't be woken... he simply COULDN'T wake because it didn't meet his programmed parameters. Rey's presence completed the program and allowed Artoo to wake up and present the map so Rey could find Luke.
     
  22. darthOB1

    darthOB1 Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 22, 2000
    Luke obviously did something to R2 using the force. The scene in Rey's vision and in trailer where he puts his hand on him. He either programmed him to power down then up when another force user showed up or when the FO was no longer a threat to track him.Either way it makes perfect sense and why that particular scene was placed in the movie, otherwise why have it?
     
  23. Darth_Zidious

    Darth_Zidious Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2001
    J.J. has answered the question. R2 has the Imperial archives within him (the article suggests he downloaded it while on the Death Star)
     
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  24. Dewback

    Dewback Force Ghost star 4

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    Jul 18, 1998
    Ah, so as others have said... it was BB-8's arrival.
     
  25. DavidWONKenobi

    DavidWONKenobi Jedi Youngling

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    Oct 27, 2015
    Having just watched TFA awakens again for the 4th time now - its obvious they need to find the map and see the red x marking Lukes location...

    [face_laugh]

    Ummm- not really but It should have been the small part they had already because the big part should have the coordinates and such already ??
     
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