ST Was Rey trained at Luke's Jedi Temple?

Saying she's a master is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top, how is she a master? She uses Jedi Mind-trick and uses the Force to pull the Lightsaber to her.......If that's all it takes to be a master then...well I've severely over-estimated their abilities.

I assume she has a high Midichlorian count, so can pick up basic force techniques naturally. But a master......she's no where near that.

 

I didn't mean she had mastered it though, just that her abilities are far beyond what someone who just found out that the Force is real should have...

 

I think they're fairly basic (admittedly we don't know one way or the other how hard Jedi Mind Trick is to use), I mean she seems to know about the mind trick after being in Kylo's head, so that could explain part of it.

for what it's worth I'm 99.999% sure she was around Jedi from a very young age, The 'Force-Vision' Scene you can hear Yoda and Obi-Wan, You hear Obi-Wan say "Rey" and you hear him say "these are your first steps"

 

I don't think she was just then finding out it was real. Her arc is "an awakening", basically a movement from one state of consciousness to another. She's initially afraid of what Maz tells her because she's associating the Force with the vastness beyond her comfort zone. It's likely in using it that she realizes it had in fact "always been there." She comes to understand that she can relate it to her own experiences because it's everywhere, and that maybe the "larger world" isn't as daunting as it seems.

 

please God don't let her be a mary sue

 

Oh for the love of, here we go YET AGAIN with this. She didn't "master" anything, she pulled some admittedly impressive moves, against opponents that were either not all that formidable (Obi Wan mocks the notion that mind tricking a weak-willed stormtrooper is any great accomplishment in ANH), or ones that had been handicapped multiple times over (Kylo Ren). It's not like she effortlessly beat Vader, or Sheev, or even Dooku in their primes. And her doing so COMPLETELY lines up with not only what Maz said in TFA, but also what Yoda and Obi Wan were telling Luke in the OT.

And as for her being "different" from what we've seen before, that's not really a BAD thing (if they do it well). I don't WANT her to be exactly the same as Luke or Anakin, or develop the same way, or face the same challenges, that'd just be boring. And I thought that people wanted to see stuff that was "new and different." And yet I constantly here ideas being shot down because "the films have never done that before." Well which is it, do you want them to try new stuff or not? Because I'm getting really mixed messages here.

Do I think that she was at Luke's academy, quite possibly. At the very least, I can see her parents (assuming that she's not Luke's child) having known/been friends with Luke (perhaps they were two of his students) and Luke having interacted with Rey as a little girl.

 

Kylo said it himself she's untrained but strong in the Force. He lied?

 

This. Enough about "it takes X number of years to learn this or that force power." It's irrelevant. The force is in all of us. Our spirits. Our calling. Our "bliss," to use Joseph Campbell's term. And Rey awakens to this reality in TFA. She feels the force, and uses it for the first time - somewhat blindly, and instinctually when pushed to the edge. Now it's Luke's job to teach her how to control it.

Everybody has the force. But not everyone is awake to it. And very few people know how to control and manipulate it. That's the path Rey's on, and she's still got a long way to go.

There's a reason most uber fans aren't great judges or critics of the material they love. Too often, they miss the forest for the trees.

 

What's the male equivalent to a Mary Sue? I'm asking sincerely.

 

Certainly the evidence from the movie and novel suggest Rey was at Luke's Jedi Academy. (whether that was a "temple" or not is something else).

-Kylo stating "What girl?!" This is not an inquiry in regards to just some random girl that joined trooper FN-2187, but rather a a question stated in a manner demanding to know of a very specific girl: one whom he's been searching for over the course of many years. Kylo's action of force pulling the officer to him further suggests this. What we don't see is the continuation of this interrogation, whatever additional information the officer had regarding the girl, and Kylo's followup questions.
-Lor San Tekka, who is part of the Church of the Force, who knows Kylo Ren and Kylo's family, who has the map to Skywalker, who also just happens to be on the same planet as Rey? Can't be just a coincidence in such a huge galaxy. He's likely there to watch over Rey without her knowing about him.
-Kylo stating "It is you" in the novel during the confrontation in the forest. Kylo trained with Luke, so where else might Kylo have met this girl other than the Academy?
-from novel: Rey's vision (when first holding the lighsaber) includes that of a boy standing at the end of a hallway. It's suggested the filmmakers cut this scene as the boy likely resembled Kylo Ren.
-from novel: Rey's vision doesn't include any Unkar Plutt voice (unlike the movie). The novel only mentions "that voice". "That voice" which is promising to come back for her. Likely, "that voice" is so familiar, the film-makers cut that out too (or didn't bother to include it as the audience would easily guess at it).
-from novel: Kylo detects something strange in Rey's mind, like a barrier. His probing is likely what causes that barrier to crumble and initiate the "reawakening" of her prior Force training in the Academy.
-The battle scene in Rey's vision suggests the KoR attack on the Academy and Rey's survival of that attack.

 

If their midichlorian count is high enough, sure.

 

I'm sure hers is. Though Midichlorians was one of the most annoying things the PT brought to the Saga

 

The theory has one big hole in it. If Rey was training under Luke until she was 5, that would mean that Kylo was only 15 or 16 years old when he destroyed the students. There is a possibility that Luke hid Rey several years before the massacre, but I do not see much logic in that.

 

Disagree. My understanding is that midichlorians multiply in a person's body the more that they access the force. So Anakin's were berry high not because he was genetically full of them, but because his was open to the face, causing them to accumulate. Like water or air flows into a crevice, so will midi chlorine be attracted to a mind that's open to the force.

Otherwise, if force sensitivity is exclusively a genetic inheritance, Star Wars is simply not a good story for young people (or really anyone) to be consuming.

Lucas maintained that this is how we should see the force. It's all about people finding their calling. Their inner spirit. Their bliss. Midi chlorine are just a way of showing that Anakin was particularly attuned to his inner spirit. This is what makes these films applicable to such a broad population. Not "if you have the right amount of specific cells in your body, you can do great things."

Forest being missed for the trees.

 

Except that's what the movie suggests. Force Sensitivity is genetic, and is based on the amount of midichlorians in your cells. What you're claiming here about midichlorians is just fan theory, the movies doesn't suggest any of that.

 

Nowhere in the films was it suggested that Anakin, or other Jedi, were born with a ton of midichlorians. In Anakin's case, he simply had a lot of them by the time Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan met him. That's the extent of what we learn about his midichlorian situation in TPM. Viewers are therefore free to interpret beyond this basic fact. Given George Lucas' past comments regarding everyone's "potential" to be force sensitive, given the influence that Buddhism and other eastern religions had on the concept of the force, and given the function of Star Wars stories as metaphors for fulfilling one's inner potential, the "you can only do great things if you're born with a certain amount of specific microorganisms in your body" is an interpretation that I think is very difficult to defend. There's plenty of leeway in the canon to reject the "ubermensch" interpretation of force sensitivity.

And yet that narrowing of interpretation, for whatever reason, continues to persist in fandom. I'm frankly tired of fans stifling interpretation by asserting false certainty about elements of Star Wars that remain uncertain.

ETA: Apologies for the multiple typos in my previous post. My phone was auto-correct happy last night.

 

It's not just fan theory. It's interpretation between differing accounts of what the Force is in the movies themselves. In the PT, the Jedi seem so focused on reducing their understanding of the Force to a scientific explanation that they lose sight of the mysticism of the Force. In the OT, Yoda seems to have swung back to a more mystical view of the Force when he talks about how its energy surrounds us and binds us together. He even states that "luminous beings are we, not this crude matter". So how could you define connection to the Force via midi-chlorians in blood which would be in effect, crude matter?

 

Simple: Lucas hadn't thought of it yet. You seem to ignore what is said in Episode 1.

 

Nothing in Episode 1 states that Anakin was born with far more midichlorians than anyone else. He was immaculately conceived, apparently. And he had a lot of midichlorians at age 9. That's all the information we get.

This leaves significant room for interpretation about force sensitivity, and whether it is learned or inherited. I think it's safe to say that some people are born with a greater likelihood of tapping into the force, but that everyone, ultimately, can tap into the force given the right circumstances and inclination.

 

Again, fan theories. Nothing in the movie suggests that. The same way the movie doesn't suggest that midichlorians are injected directly into their veins with a needle.

 

You seem to ignore what was said in Episode V, which chronologically came after Episode 1 and implies that Yoda had a different interpretation of the Force at that point.

 

Well, yes. The movie leaves force sensitivity open to a lot of interpretation. Not sure why your "theory," whatever it is, is better supported than the one I'm suggesting.

What, exactly, is your interpretation? And why do you feel that interpretation is the only plausible one based on what we know from the PT and the OT?

Lastly, this is art, not the hard sciences. Interpretation is the name of the game.

 

My theory is that the ability to use the Force is genetic, and that's what has been shown in the movies. In Episode 6, Leia even says Luke has a power she could never have. But Luke says that she actually can, since they are related. "The Force is strong in my family"?

 

All that suggests is force sensitivity may come more naturally to the Skywalkers, and other families, than others. As far as they know. Says nothing about force ability being exclusively genetic.

Plus, we are talking about characters interpreting the force. There is no hard and fast "law of the force," as far as we know. That's why wise sages exist in the universe to try and interpret it, as best they can. Its secrets have barely been explored.

So your theory of force sensitivity being exclusively genetic is just...a fan theory. Like everyone else's.

But we at least know how Lucas felt about the subject, and he decidedly did not like the idea that only certain individuals, of a certain genetic inclination, could tap into it.

 

Um, you can't say things stated in the movie is a fan theory and just disregard it as "Luke's interpretation". Even if you don't think the Force is entirely genetic, it's still quite obvious in the movies that not everyone can learn to use the Force.