PT Was Shmi's death part of Palpatine's scheme?

Sorry, but you don't. Your false claims prove it.

You can disagree with anything and anybody. But that has nothing to do with the fact that you're making stuff up.

Sure, its concepts. Not made up concepts as the ones you described.

No, they don't. Anakin turned out of fear, greed and power. Feelings and actions that were exploited by Palpatine.

There are things that are open to interpretation, and there are things that aren't, as pointed above.

 

Let me make it clear once again that I'm talking mainly about pre-Tusken camp Anakin, before he became a killer. Where is there anything in his actions to show that he can't control his emotions? He dares admit to Padme that he feels lonely and cold on her ship, that's as far as his "emotional outbreaks" go in TPM. In AOTC he tries to declare his feelings toward Padme but again is holding back much of what he really feels, until the fireplace scene. All that time he restrains his feelings a lot rather than let them get out of control. I see nothing in his behavior that tells me he can't control his feelings. Arguably in that scene by the lake, yes, you could say that for the first time he gives in to his feelings, but he regrets that immediately and even apologizes. But that has been discussed in countless other threads. This is more about his attachments to Shmi. I'm sorry, I fail to see any instance in the movies where his ties and feelings towards her are in any way unnatural or out of control. The Tusken camp of course is the turning point for the whole PT. This is the very first time ever that his feelings do get out of control.
I would like to address the rest of your points as well but don't have time now. That will have to wait a while.

 

I don't think Palpatine planned Shmi's death, but like any good Sith Lord (contradictory, I know), he took advantage. He fed on Anakin's fears. I don't know if he was manipulating the visions Anakin had of Padme dying, but he fed on his fears, especially with the tale of Darth Plagueis the Wise. He saw the effect Shmi's death had on Anakin and had the perfect bait to use.

 

Okay.

When we see him argue with Obi-wan about the nature of their assignment. When he's upset that Padme didn't have the kind of reaction to seeing him that he thought she should have. When he's talking to Padme about Obi-wan and you can see him getting angry. When he gets angry and defensive over Padme calling him a Padawan in front of Queen Jamillia and Governor Bibble, and tries to assert his authority.

That's not an emotional outbreak. That's just being honest. But in TPM, when the Jedi Council feel his fear and then he becomes defensive and a bit angry. As well as the deleted scene where he's beating on Greedo because he was insulted. However, he has no training and so it is not an issue. It's when he is a Jedi and he's not able to control his emotions that he becomes problematic.

 

To answer the question, no, I don't think Palpatine had any part in it. Even in the Legends continuity, where Palpatine by the end of the run was credited with having cause everything in the prequel trilogy to happen as part of his plan, was never tied to Shmi Skywalker's death. There are too many variables out of his control (like the Larses freeing her from Watto, Anakin's decision to go to Tattooine at the precise time that he could find her before she expired, etc.) At most, he could have used the Force to get an idea that something like it would happen and prepare to take advantage of it.

 

A fear that could EASILY have been relieved had the Jedi allowed him as much as a short "phone call" over Skype (or whatever IM is popular in the GFFA). All Anakin had needed was to know his mother to be safe, that's it! He would not even have wanted to be with her or see her. Is that small reassurance really asking too much, Jedi or no Jedi?
As to "willingly", we are talking about a 9-year-old here. In our Western societies we don't trust anyone under age 18 (or 21 or whatever) to drink, vote, get married, have a bank account or anything else that might affect his future. In other words we don't trust kids to make any sort of important decision. But in SW we are supposed to believe when a little kid wants a little adventure in his life that this is a permanent choice for which he is held responsible for the rest of his life??

OK, I get that. Jealousy, greed, selfishness.... are without doubt negative qualities. A small kid wanting to know his mother safe is NOT, it's normal. As I said above, all the Jedi would have had to do was give him some small kind of reassurance about his mother. Are you telling me that would have broken the Jedi code? Seriously? Had they not been so blind to his fear they could have done him this one little favor. They wanted a Jedi who can focus on his duties, right? They wanted the "chosen one", a perfect Jedi without hate or fear. They wanted all that from Anakin yet did nothing to help him become that. Instead what they got was a Sith that helped wipe out most of their order. Good job!

No, you are taking my remark totally out of context. I said I can relate to how Anakin feels at this point. What he experienced on Tatooine was enough to push him over the edge. He was a Jedi but he was also human. And let's not forget, the Tusken were not considered equal human beings (are they even?) by everyone in the whole saga. None of the movies (forget the EU) shows us anything about them to suggest they are anything other then "vicious mindless monsters". Their actions show them as evil, period. That's all we as the audience know about them. Everything else is pure speculation or EU fabrication.

When you just saw your mother not only killed but tortured to death, for a MONTH, I guess I myself would be a little more than angry, yes.

You could ask a soldier, concentration camp prisoner, children in a war-torn country, citizens living under a brutal oppressive regime.... that question. I wonder what answers you would get.

No, and honestly I don't think PT Anakin really wanted anyone to suffer. When he did kill he regrets it later and has an emotional breakdown. Even as a Sith on Mustafar he has tears in his eyes. A true sadist would have enjoyed killing. The Vader we see in the OT is like that, not PT Anakin.

Sounds reasonable to me. But being less self-centered, more "communal", less emotion-based is not quite the same as breaking up families and suppressing all your emotions, even the good ones.

Nothing he does in TPM or AOTC shows this. And in ROTS he becomes, well, a SITH, which is the whole point of the PT, a good person becoming evil due to different factors. I didn't say strict Jedi rules was the ONLY factor. But it's clear Anakin was not evil to begin with.

It wasn't his own death he wanted to "cheat", but save a loved one. Is that really "greed"? This debate is becoming a moral/religious one, so I won't go further in that direction. We are talking about different belief systems. I agree with Lucas that greed is bad, but am not buying into the whole "cheat death" argument. Isn't seeing a doctor the first step in "cheating death". Where is the line? When is it going too far? Trying to save your wife from dying may be "cheating" from your point of view, from mine it isn't. But that's my opinion, no point in arguing further.

By the JEDI, yes. Otherwise love can be interpreted in different ways. In real life I have yet to see someone who loves completely selflessly, not even sure that's possible for humans. Again, YES, he did become selfish, but not until ROTS. Before that he was pretty modest and selfless, excluding the Tusken scene, which I interpret as neither selfish nor greedy. It was revenge, pure and simple. He acted in a moment of blind fury, which does not reflect his normal character.

In a way they did use him. They needed their "chosen one", so they expected Anakin to fit into their prophecy (remember: "a prophecy that misinterpreted, could have been"). They wanted some ideal flawless, even "fictional", Jedi from some ancient Jedi legend. That was unrealistic and naive to begin with. They wanted Anakin to be something he was not, then blamed him for not fitting the role they made for him.

 

The real test though is training yourself to let go of your fears. That can only be accomplished by self discipline.

Shmi wants Anakin to leave because she cannot provide a better life for him. She wants someone who is qualified to help him to help him.

SHMI: "He deserves better than a slave’s life."

QUI-GON: "The Force is unusually strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?"

SHMI: "There was no father, that I know of… I carried him, I gave him birth… I can’t explain what happened. Can you help him?"

QUI-GON: "I’m afraid not. Had he been born in the Republic, we would have identified him early, and he would have become Jedi, no doubt… he has the way. But it’s too late for him now, he’s too old."

So yes, he is to be held responsible since it is his mother who tells him that this is his decision to make. He chooses to do so, even knowing that she would stay behind.

Obi-wan was aware that he was bothered by some dreams, but he didn't see it as a cause for concern. He didn't see anything malicious behind them. Even Anakin wasn't sure what he was seeing until it was too late. And yes, he has to place his duty above all other concerns. He endangered Padme by taking her to Tatooine. Nor did they expect Anakin to be a perfect Jedi. They expected him to follow his training and do what was right. Obi-wan gave him all kinds of help, but Anakin had to take the long and difficult road to get there.

It is also pure fabrication that they are mindless monsters. We have biased views from Anakin and Cliegg. This isn't much different from white people thinking Native Americans were savages because of how they behaved.

And anger is a path to the dark side. As Anakin said, he knows that he is better than this. He knows that anger is wrong. The right thing to do was to not give into your anger.

We're not talking about them. We're talking about you. Do you think it is okay to live in fear that someone you love will be hurt or will die? Not because they're in a war torn country, but are living a normal life.

He does enjoy the killing. That's why his eyes turned yellow. He enjoyed killing those who wronged him and threatened his happiness. He only regrets that he had to do it and that he knows that he is wrong, but he also doesn't want to change what he did. He feels vindicated by his actions.

Lucas doesn't advocate suppressing love. He advocates having compassionate love which is selfless over passionate love which is selfishness. Lucas believes that one can love someone, but it must be a love free of the negative aspects that come with it. That one must be willing to sacrifice all and not be bound by threats to their loved ones. Anakin is ready to kill Palpatine, but doesn't because Padme might die if he does.

In TPM, there is no greed because he knows nothing of it. He does what he does without thought of reward. In AOTC, there is greed there. He wants to be with Padme knowing full well that it goes beyond what the Code allows for. He wants to have a relationship with her regardless of the consequences to the both of them. He knows that if he is to be with her the way that he wants, he has to leave the Jedi Order. But he doesn't want to go. He wants to stay and have what he wants. That is greed.

I never said that he was and neither did Lucas. He outright said that Anakin is a good kid at heart, but he makes a lot of bad choices because he makes emotional mistakes.

Anakin wanted to save Padme by learning how to cheat death. He wants to fight nature. That's wrong.

"When you get down to where we are right now in the story, you basically get somebody who’s going to make a pact with the Devil, and it’s going to be a pact with the Devil that says, 'I want the power to save somebody from death. I want to be able to stop them from going to the river Styx, and I need to go to a god for that, but the gods won’t do it, so I’m going to go down to Hades and get the Dark Lord to allow me to have this power that will allow me to save the very person I want to hang on to.' You know, it’s Faust. So Anakin wants that power, and that is basically a bad thing. If you’re going to sell your soul to save somebody you love, that’s not a good thing. That’s as we say in the film, unnatural. You have to accept that natural course of life. Of all things. Death is obviously the biggest of them all. Not only death for yourself but death for the things you care about."

--George Lucas, "Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005.


"This is obviously a very pivotal scene for Anakin because this is reuniting with his mother and his youth and at the same time dealing with his inability to let go of his emotions and allow himself to accept the inevitable. The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can't hold onto things, which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn't willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he'd have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the dark side. I mean he's been prepping for this, but that's the one where he's sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The scene in the garage here, we begin to see that what he's really upset about is the fact that he's not powerful enough. That if he had more power, he could've kept his mother. He could've saved her and she could've been in his life. That relationship could've stayed there if he'd have been just powerful enough. He's greedy in that he wants to keep his mother around, he's greedy in that he wants to become more powerful in order to control things in order to keep the things around that he wants. There's a lot of connections here with the beginning of him sliding into the dark side. And it also shows his jealousy and anger at Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambition and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everybody saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the dark side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the dark side because the dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the dark side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

When a doctor fights to save a life, they are doing everything in their power to do so. But they will not sell their soul to save that person's life. There comes a point where the doctor accepts that there is nothing more that can be done. That is accepting the inevitable. Anakin wants to use the Force to stop Padme from dying. That is wrong. Palpatine even states it.

PALPATINE: "The dark side of the Force is the pathway to abilities that some would consider to be unnatural."

And Yoda himself says that dying is a natural part of life. That is the way of things, the way of the Force. I didn't want my stepfather and my brother to die of cancer. But I also had to accept that when there was nothing more to be done. I had to learn to let them go, as did the rest of my family. We had to think of their welfare and not what we wanted.

What Anakin wanted to do was to play god. To defy the Force and nature in order to save Padme. And he's not doing it for her. He's doing it for himself because he is afraid to be alone.

Yes, it is possible. It happens more often than you realize. That is a person who trusts their spouses to be faithful and to not be suspicious. That is a person who thinks of their loved ones over themselves. The husband who accepted that his wife needed to work in order to provide for a better income. The couple who accepts that one of them will go off and take part in a lifestyle that is risky and dangerous, such as police work or being a firefighter. It is a parent who wants their child to have a life better than their own. A parent who is willing to die for their child. A parent who will sacrifice what they want for themselves, instead they want their children to have what they want or need. A couple that realizes that when it is over and nothing can be done to repair the relationship, they move on and accept it.

It reflects that he was acting out of his own personal interests, which was wanting to inflict pain and suffering out of anger. A Jedi would walk away with Shmi and take her home. Obi-wan would have done that. So would Qui-gon.

There was no ideological idea of what the Chosen One was. The Chosen One is simply a Jedi who will bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith. The only blame towards Anakin was for choosing to go against his training and his own beliefs in favor of his greed. The Council doesn't blame him for that. Obi-wan does and that is because he is disappointed that his Padawan, who was like a son to him and a good friend, chose to betray everything that he once held dear because of his selfishness and greed.

Anakin failed himself. This was his Jedi trial. He needed to let go of Padme and do the right thing for the right reasons. This is why when he saves Luke, he does the right thing because he stops being selfish and self-centered. He thinks only of his son's welfare and not his own quest for power. Anakin has finally found balance within himself and in doing so, he balances the Force. It is a life long endeavor for a Jedi to not bend fear into anger.

 

I like to think of it as a unplanned yet fortuitous event that Palps took advantage of. Makes sense to me.

 

I think this concept of Palpatine being all powerful Sith that could plane everything to the last detail underestimates not only the others (who supposed to look like ignorant idiots around him) but also Palpatine himself, his intellect (no matter that he is twisted and evil) and his exceptional strategic skills. Palpatine as every good strategist is brilliant opportunist who can use in his favor almost every situation. That is his style and could be seen even in OT: yes, we could turn him (Luke), i.e. use him in our advantage. The same words he says to Darth Maul and Nute Gunrey in TPM. So Palpatine is like a skilled card player: he has his goal, but prefers to act second: when all the players show their cards because he has the advantage to know their cards but they still don't know his cards. My point is that in the movie there is no clue that he is involved in that and why? He mentioned it in ROTS but saying: 'remember what you told me about your mother and the sand people'. So, unfortunately the only other person (except Padme) who knows about the Tuskens (I mean that Anakin confessed that to him) is indeed Palpatine. It is awful because he really gained the trust of Anakin and Anakin confessed that guilt not to Obi Wan for example but to him. So, yes, Palpatine used that information very well. But the Tusken massacre is Anakin's act. The first worng one (and could be the last, really, but yes Palpatine is exceptional manipulator). What Lucas is showing that everyone could give himself to the anger and rage in such crucial moment, even the best characters.

I don't understand why so much people are judging Anakin so easy for that (or on the other side, justify him looking for some Palpatine involvement). In that case I agree with Sith Lord 2015 : is not I'm justifying what Anakin did, is just I'm not sure that I could easy resist to the hate and pain in this moment. I don't know what I would do in his place, because I even couldn't imagine being in his place, but he already knew that it was wrong. In Lars garage he is already tortured by his pain and guilt and there is no need to point him out as ultimate sinner and bad boy and that's why Padme stood with him and soothed him: is not that she justifies his actions but she is trying to help him and save him.

So my point is that this event played a key role in Anakin's life but there is no need to be 'organized' by Palpatine. If it was only that, Anakin would never step back on the dark path again, he still in AOTC feels too much remorse. But unfortunately the things were much more complicated.

 

If Count Dooku had ordered her killed in some form or and had been replaced by General Grievous, it could've explained much of his motivation to join the dark side.

 

I'm not sure how anyone, even Palpatine, is supposed to be able to manipulate the Sand People into attacking Shmi in particular. So, no, I don't think Palpatine had anything to do with her death. Now, if she was killed by Jango Fett....

As for Palpatine "sending" Anakin visions of something he was not responsible for, that's entirely unnecessary, as the movies make it clear, over and over before that point, that Anakin is perfectly capable of having such a vision on his own.

I give Palpatine credit for a lot of things, especially his political machinations, which I think the movies either show directly or very strongly hint at, but I don't give him credit for this, and the movies don't give me any reason to.

 

I don't think Palpatine did anything to Shmi. I think he just used what the galaxy gave him and then after he manipulated Anakin about Padme knowing what had happened. I tgink he used it to make him alot more unstable.

 

I admit that Palpatine's possible involvement in Shmi's death never occurred to me. Sure, it's possible. Had he been sure to be able to have a new and more powerful Sith apprentice that way, and the "chosen one" at that, he might have stopped at nothing to give Anakin another reason to distrust the Jedi and find the dark side more appealing. I'm saying it could have happened, though I personally don't think so. To me it was just one of life's coincidences, convenient for Palpatine, yes, but not necessarily carried out by him. I don't tend to over-think movies, so I never made that connection.

 

I really don't see how Palpatine could have orchestrated all that, tbh. I mean, the Tusken Raiders were known to do this kind of thing of their own volition, in the first place, and Palpatine did in fact have his hands full. And, as others have mentioned, there's very small chance he could have somehow caused the purchase of Shmi that led to her being freed, which then led to her capture and eventual death, and somehow have orchestrated said capture, and also make sure that Anakin was there right on time as well. It just doesn't add up.

Besides that, it was made pretty clear by the way the other Jedi talk that Jedi having visions of the future isn't a rare occurrence, particularly if they're very strong with the Force. Anakin's visions weren't caused by Palpatine. And I really doubt that Palpatine managed to cause the Sand People to take Shmi.

 

Not sure if he did or not.

I am of the belief that Palpatine's plans were very detailed, and worked to almost near perfection for him.

However, Shmi's death has a more organic, more spontaneous feel to it than any other part of Palpatine's machinations. What I mean is that in most other scenes where we know Palpatine is doing his thing, there is a slight grin, a smile, dialogue that is drawn out, a camera shot, basically there is something indicating that he is up to something. There seems to be nothing like that when it comes to Shmi's death...

On the flip side of that argument though is the mirroring that takes place between ESB and AOTC.



In ESB we see Vader (Anakin) use the torture of those that are close to Luke in order to draw Luke to him. Vader knows the emotional connection Luke has with Han and Leia and the pain that is inflicted on them will be felt by Luke through the Force. This is done to force an emotional confrontation in the hopes of turning Luke to the Dark Side. We know that Luke rejects the Dark Side and his feelings of anger and instead chooses to possibly fall to his death rather than give in to the easy emotions...

Where as in AOTC, Anakin is drawn to Shmi because of his emotional connection to her, and the pain that she is feeling due to her being tortured. I have no doubt that his visions are genuine and not being sent to him by Sidious. Just like Luke's visions weren't sent from Vader, but were genuine Force Powers. However, Anakin makes an entirely different decision than Luke did.

However, does that rule out that Sidious himself didn't have DOoku arrange for the kidnapping? Is it ruled out that Sidious didn't want this situation to happen in order to get Anakin to do exactly what Anakin did, to take those first steps towards the darkside? The Tuskens seemingly aren't using Shmi for anything, just basically keeping her alive and torturing her, could this have been part of the deal that was arranged?

Does Vader use the torture trick in ESB because he knows that with Luke being his Son, that there is a good possibility that Luke has the same powers that he has, and that Luke will see the torture of Han and Leia... Or does Vader find out later that Sidious manipulated the Tuskens and himself in his mother's death (which is a further motivation behind Vader's hate for the Emperor and his want to destroy the Emperor using Luke), and thus Vader is employing the same trick.

I am on the fence about it. I am of the mind that it could go either, and that the movie leaves it ambiguous, and maybe Lucas does so on purpose.

 

According to information on IMBD trivia, Shimi was indeed given over to the Tuskan Raiders by Dooku and Darth Sidious' schemes. Palpatine intended for the incident to be the beginning of Anakin's descent into Vader. Hence why Palpatine brings it up in ROTS after Anakin murders Count Dooku (the only other person who knew about scheme and participated in it, tie up loose ends).

 

Palpatine brings it up because Anakin has confided in Palpatine about his massacre of the Sand People, not that he had any part in it.

Why would Palpatine, who's currently very busy with the Military Creation act, go to a backwater planet, and help the Tusken Raiders capture Shmi. Palpatine doesn't know who Watto is, so can't easily track Shmi down, and there's no way he could actually work with the raiders, as they're always shown as being highly territorial and xenophobic.

 

Anybody can post anything on IMDB trivia, that doesn't somehow make it true. There is not a single source that supports such a claim. The movies don't say anything like this, nor do any of the books, it's simply something a person made up and posted there.

 

Could it be said that Shmi willed herself to stay alive as long as possible in hopes of seeing Ani one last time? Then, once the moment came, she could die happy, and the life within her relinquished the fight.

Or was it a complete coincidence that she died when she did?

The novel mentions the Sand People were surprised at how long she held out. iirc

 

She did hold on with the belief that Anakin would come. That's why her last words were, "Oh, you look so handsome. My son. Oh, my grown-up son. I'm so proud of you, Ani. I missed you. Now I am complete."

She held on based on hope. The hope of being reunited as they discussed ten years earlier. When my stepfather was dying, he had been given a sedative to help him sleep since he hadn't slept in over a month. But he held on to being awake long enough for my mom to travel to the hospital where he was and stay conscious long enough to see her one last time.

Sometimes willpower is an incredible thing.

 

“Hey, I just left my mom on what's basically the last place anyone wants to leave a loved one, where she could be kidnapped, raped, tortured or God knows what else and I won't be there to help her.”

To put it in our perspective: It'd be like taking a small Syrian child to a Western country and telling him/her to forget the fact that his/her mom is still in the hellhole that is Syria. To pretend the mom doesn't exist anymore. I'm sorry, but what? Are we honestly saying a child would easily be able to forget that his/her mom is still in potential danger while he/she is relaxing in relative safety and security?

Oh good, so now we expect nine-year-old children to take on a responsibility that goes way over their heads when all they know of the Jedi is that they're basically space wizards with laser swords. Even if Anakin made the choice to leave knowing full well what was expected of him (re: he didn't), he's still going to miss his mother because guess what? He spent nine years with her in the worst part of the galaxy and now he's having to leave her to be alone there.

OK, I'll give you that.

I seem to have forgotten a scene where a group of Tuskens dealt with the settlers in a peaceful, non-violent way. If Lucas wanted to show that not all Tuskens were violent and sought to torture and kill, he failed. With the Native Americans, we actually HAVE documented evidence of groups of them trying to work out a peaceful deal with the white settlers before certain greedy businessmen/law enforcers decided they rather the ‘filthy savages’ not hang around anymore.

Easy for you to say when you're not confronted with the fact that your mother was tortured and killed by a group of people for a MONTH. If this were a fantasy universe, it wouldn't surprise me if Anakin seriously considered using a spell to wipe out the entire Tusken race.

Again, I'll give you this. It's one thing to be worried about Shmi, but Padme was in relative safety barring the occasional assassination attempts. She even said it herself in the ROTS novel, hardly anyone on Coruscant died of childbirth, even those living in the slums.

To be fair, at that point he WAS killing the Separatist council. Y'know, the council responsible for all the suffering and dying during the war? Come on, tell me you didn't at least feel some catharsis by proxy watching him kill them.

OK, I'll give you this.

And this.

Good point.

This too, I agree with.

I don't disagree there.

No, he was reacting in a moment of blind fury. Yes, he wanted them to suffer and die. Because he was furious. There's a difference between killing in a fit of pure, unbridled rage and killing for cold, sadistic amusement.

Basically, I agree with you on Anakin's actions later in life regarding Padme and the Jedi Code. I just don't agree with you on the whole “A nine-year-old must accept that he's leaving his mom in what amounts to Hell all by herself”

 

Because hes a JEDI. He should really had known better because of being said JEDI. Especially when only like what, 20% of the jedi order are humans at all.

 

Forget? No. Manage his emotions and deal with them in a productive manner? Yes. These dangers were always present when Anakin was living with her. He just didn't know it until he went to leave, but his mother was steadfast in letting him choose and he chose to leave and in time, he put those fears in the back of his mind until his visions started. What he needed to do was teach himself to deal with his fears and let go of them. If you live by fear and are dominated by it, you do yourself no good.

And as part of his training, he has to learn to let go of her and of his past. These are the things that Obi-wan was attempting to teach him and Qui-gon would have attempted as well, if he had lived.

We don't know everything there is to know about the Tusken Raiders. What they were like when people started to settle on Tatooine and what actions by those settlers lead to the Tuskens behavior as they are now. Lucas doesn't go this route because he wants us to be both disgusted by Anakin's actions and yet able to sympathize a bit.

And that is the wrong thing to do. As Lucas says, a Jedi must not give into anger and hate. What Anakin did here was wrong. It is easier to give into anger and hate than it is to work through your feelings from the light. That is why the dark side is stronger, because it makes it easier to think only of yourself and not others.

"It's about a good boy who was loving and had exceptional powers, but how that eventually corrupted him and how he confused possessive love with compassionate love. That happens in Episode II: Regardless of how his mother died, Jedis are not supposed to take vengeance. And that's why they say he was too old to be a Jedi, because he made his emotional connections. His undoing is that he loveth too much."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine Interview; June 2005.

"It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful—it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What Luke sees in Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ is something that I thought was worth understanding: the idea that Darth actually was a very good person. Except he's slightly more powerful than other people and when you get into that situation, your ability to do evil is much easier to come by."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

Right, but given what happened before, Anakin cannot bring himself to believe that to be true. That is why he becomes obsessed with trying to save her, because the last time he ignored his visions, he paid a heavy price for it and he won't do it again. He cannot let himself fail someone that he loves, for a second time. But if he had adhered to what Yoda said, if he had trained himself to accept the loss of his loved ones, then she would have never died and he would have never betrayed the Jedi.

No, because they were pawns in this as well. They only did what they did because Darth Sidious conned them into doing this. They deserved prison, not death. The only members of the Confederacy that deserved death was Grievous and the Sith. The catharsis only comes when Anakin slams dunks Palpatine to his death.

Blind fury is also bad. That's why Lucas, Kasdan and Marquand gave us this scene in ROTJ.



It told us what blind fury will do. The former will lead to the latter.

YODA: "Fear, anger, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-wan's Apprentice."

That's why the Tusken Slaughter was so pivotal in Anakin's downfall, because it lead to his wanting to use his emotions again and again.

Being there wouldn't change anything. Sooner or later, Watto would have sold her because he didn't need her anymore. Sooner or later, she would die. It all comes down to learning to deal.

But all have emotions. In the GFFA, there is little difference in that regard between humans and aliens. That's why so many alien species can use the Force and all are subject to the dark side if they do not learn control.

 

No. The Emperor is by far my favorite prequel character and one of the things I like about him is how he’s able to take every situation and manipulate it to his advantage. Having him orchestrate every little thing that happens takes away from his manipulative brilliance. It’s actually interesting that, of all the prequel characters, only he seems capable of seizing the opportunities that present themselves.

Wanting to save his mom is perfectly fine and arguably somewhat admirable. Slaughtering an en entire village, down to the last man, woman and child, is the mark of a violent, murderous psychopath who needs to be locked away.

To use a real life example, my college girlfriend was killed by a drunk driver while visiting her family in Los Angeles. I did not react by murdering every last man, woman and child in LA…because I’m not an unstable psychopath.

Bounds of reason here, people.

 

I agree. While I can understand his rage and bloodlust, I don't condone it. And the Jedi's actions of not letting Anakin see his mom doesn't excuse Anakin's slaughter of the Tuskens. At some point, Anakin needs to take responsibility for his own actions.